Electronics -- System Architecture

[chala]

Originally Posted by DotDun

So, you install the cabling properly, but couldn't see that inside the mast the cable gets pinched between the mast and halyard.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ice-83726.html

I see the crossover coupler connection (E55060) as the most vulnerable part of a new Raymarine installation. This is not an STng (N2K) but an SThs connection.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by chala

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ice-83726.html

I see the crossover coupler connection (E55060) as the most vulnerable part of a new Raymarine installation. This is not an STng (N2K) but an SThs connection.

I don't believe Dockhead is using that at all.

Dave

[chala]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

For me, the coolest thing is graphing of wind speed and direction over time, so important when sailing.

I do share your’s enthusiasm for graphs. So how good are Zeus graphs?

Originally Posted by colemj

RM i70 or B&G Triton…….
…graph any sensor data you want……
Mark

And so, how good are RM i70 graphs?

For “how good” see: C95 future history graphs. - Raymarine Technical Forum

[Ziggy]

Originally Posted by colemj

I agree that the topology isn't the most efficient or user friendly, but how often do you expect cable faults? The Maretron cabling and connectors we used are waterproof and seem almost milspec in quality. They are certainly far, far more robust than any of the NMEA0183, transducer and instrument cabling and associated connectors that we pulled out to replace. Not to mention the cheap (manufacturer supplied) junction boxes, etc used in the old install. Even the connections to commercial 0183 multiplexers are cheaper and more fragile than any of the N2K stuff we put in. Heck, the connections and supplied wiring on the back of most current instruments are more fragile than the Maretron cabling and connectors.

While I can foresee problems with individual instruments, I don't see issues with our cabling in the future. And troubleshooting individual instruments is a snap - you just unplug them.

Mark

Just for the record, last summer, a maretron tee connector failed in my network. Since I believed it was very unlikely a tee could have failed, I wasted a lot of time taking my wind instruments off the mast to test them first.

Having said that, finding a fault in an N2K network is pretty easy if you approach it methodically and have a few spares, like tees and terminators.

[chala]

Maybe of interest:
“The maximum number of first generation SeaTalk devices which may be interfaced to the SeaTalk port of a SeaTalk to SeaTalk Converter is five. Should you have additional more than six first generation SeaTalk devices to be interfaced to the system, then one additional SeaTalk to SeaTalk Converter will need to be installed for every five additional first generation SeaTalk devices”
This can be found at:
C95,350 Ais , Digital Radar integrated to Sea Talk 1 with E22158: TURNING OFF AUTO PILOT - Raymarine Technical Forum

[colemj]

Originally Posted by chala

And so, how good are RM i70 graphs?

For “how good” see: C95 future history graphs. - Raymarine Technical Forum

We have the Triton and not the i70, so I can't speak to the i70. The Triton graphs for depth and wind look like these (both are set at 10 minute display - the Triton will show 10, 30 and 60 minutes of data from the sensor or data you choose):

Mark

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Ziggy

Just for the record, last summer, a maretron tee connector failed in my network. Since I believed it was very unlikely a tee could have failed, I wasted a lot of time taking my wind instruments off the mast to test them first.

Having said that, finding a fault in an N2K network is pretty easy if you approach it methodically and have a few spares, like tees and terminators.

Wow, a T-connector. I can't even imagine a failure mode for that unless it was bunged from the get-go. That would have stumped me also.

What was the failure - data? power? pin connector?

Mark

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by colemj

We have the Triton and not the i70, so I can't speak to the i70. The Triton graphs for depth and wind look like these (both are set at 10 minute display - the Triton will show 10, 30 and 60 minutes of data from the sensor or data you choose):

Mark

The Tritons look great. I will be using them for my main wind, speed, and depth displays, on the scuttle. Short-term history of wind speed and direction is terrifically useful when sailing. The Zeus MFD's do bar graphs of both, along the right side of the screen. Fantastic -- reason enough to get them over the analogous Simrad MFD's.

[chala]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The Zeus MFD's do bar graphs of both, along the right side of the screen.

I do not really like bargraph, I own one instrument that do bargraph but find bargraph to messy. So no Zeus for me. If Raymarine does not upgrade their C 95 I will not buy a second one like intended, but instead will buy i70 and see how good it is at bargraph and let you know. By the way RM classic mfd used to record hours of graphs.

[Ziggy]

Originally Posted by colemj

Wow, a T-connector. I can't even imagine a failure mode for that unless it was bunged from the get-go. That would have stumped me also.

What was the failure - data? power? pin connector?

Mark

Externally, it looked intact. The branch going to the drop cable to my knotmeter was fine, but the backbone extension running up the mast to my wind instruments was dead. I couldn't believe the tee could be bad either, so rather than taking it out and testing with the mast cable connected directly to the backbone I climbed the mast to bring down my wind instruments, which tested out fine. At this point the only thing left was the tee. I took it out and everything worked fine. I RMAed it to Maretron who confirmed the tee was dead and replaced it free of charge. I hope they did a postmortem on it, found the root cause, and corrected it.

[Dockhead]

So, here’s what my system looks like after all this. I need to finalize it and order the stuff this week.

A note about how I run my boat: I spend a lot of time at the nav table, which is, to be honest, my favorite place on board. I do a lot of planning there before passages (tidal waters, complicated pilotage, and wacky weather here – requires a lot of planning, often hours of it). When I have good crew, I like to let someone else do most of the helming. I am always responsible for sail trim and pilotage, but I generally do navigation, radar watch, and general running of the boat from the nav table, which I consider the real nerve center of the boat. So getting the nav table instrumentation right is a priority.

I have come down to two versions of cockpit instrumentation, and two versions for the nav table. The gist of it is this:

Cockpit:
3 Tritons plus existing Ray wind instrument (as redundant system – I’m leaving the old masthead instrument in place) on the scuttle.
B&G Z8 (the non-touchscreen version), one Triton, one pilot control pad, at the helm. This fits in my existing Navpod with slight modifications. Plus existing forward-looking sonar display.

OR

B&G Z8, Simrad NSS7, and pilot control pad, at the helm. This will require two new Navpods at a cost of about $800. But two MFD’s will let me see radar and plotter independently, something I got used to and absolutely loved on a friend’s big Swan.

Nav Table.

B&G T8 (touchscreen version), one Triton, existing Ray ST60+ depth (it’s redundant), Maretron DSM-200 (monochrome version of the DSM-250 at half the price), Simrad NSS7.

OR

B&G T8, one Triton, existing depth, Maretron DSM-200 (or maybe the smaller DSM-150), no second MFD, but embedded computer (Stealth mobile or similar) with 23” stalk-mounted monitor.

With the second version of the nav table, I lose the second MFD, but probably don’t need it since I can use the embedded computer to display plotter while I’m using the radar. The embedded computer is expensive (about $2500 with the monitor, stalk, and operating system), but will be very flexible, will do all kinds of things. Will mirror Zeus display if I like, display plotter, weather, provide a superb comprehensive display of all systems if I buy the N2KView software from Maretron. Display video feed from the Raymarine night vision cameras.

OR

A third economy version with neither embedded comp nor second MFD. I can probably duplicate most of embedded computer functions on a laptop.

So what do you guys think? I’m leaning towards the simpler helm using my existing Navpod, with no second MFD, and the more elaborate nav table setup with the embedded computer. But have not yet made a final decision.

[Dockhead]

Here's the very rough bill of materials:

electronicsBOM10.xls

The total damage ranges from $23k to $26k, without any labor (still planning to do it myself).

[chala]

Do you really have to buy everything in one go, do you get greater saving by doing so?

I started my n2k with a RM A50 to RM autopilot, investigated NMEA 1983 connectivity did not like it, moved into STng did like it, got a Flir-RM New c series did not like it, got a second RM A50 and I am now investigating a non Flir-RM MFD. If I had bought two New c series Flir-RM I would have got two poorly performing MFD’s.

By the way, does your gas alarm at $US 350, also detect carbon monoxide?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by chala

Do you really have to buy everything in one go, do you get greater saving by doing so?

I started my n2k with a RM A50 to RM autopilot, investigated NMEA 1983 connectivity did not like it, moved into STng did like it, got a Flir-RM New c series did not like it, got a second RM A50 and I am now investigating a non Flir-RM MFD. If I had bought two New c series Flir-RM I would have got two poorly performing MFD’s.

By the way, does your gas alarm at $US 350, also detect carbon monoxide?

I suppose the only reason to do it in one go is for it not to end up on The List behind more urgent repairs, and thus never getting done. I've got the boat out of the water and am really concentrated on liquidating The List, so that I can start fresh.

I haven't chosen the gas alarm system yet -- still looking at them. The figure is hypothetical. If you have recommendations, I'm all ears.

Thanks.

[hellosailor]

chala-
You might be best off using a disposable separate CO detector. Apparently, they ALL go bad in 5-7 years and now in residential use, we're starting to see requirements that they be replaced every seven years, regardless of type, testing, etc. So some of the vendors are simply making CO detectors with a "seven year" battery in them, and saying sero maintenance, toss the whole thing after 7 years. (At which point it will go off and tell you to replace it, too.)