Enhance Weak Marina WI-FI

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Augi, OP was asking about WiFi.

Yes, the utility of cell a phone connection is attractive, but the data cost is ongoing, week after week, and several popular Internet uses are very heavy bandwidth consumers, making cell phone usage much more expensive. For example, streaming movies or TV shows, or even YouTube shows, can use a GB every 2 or 3 days. I don't view cell phone as viable for streaming video. When we are using cell phone for Internet, we just don't stream video. Even browsing FB gets expensive.

WiFi, on the other hand, is generally provided without data limits, so the cost of getting set up with equipment is one time only, after that there is no additional cost. However, as has been noted, marina WiFi is often poor quality and it does not take many users to bog it down. In our case, everyone complained about marina wifi and said it was unusable. We however, once we found a technical solution which works, find it fine and use it every day.

The best solution for cruising boats is a dual system, WiFi for when it is available, and cell phone for when it is not, but the WiFi solution must focus on the reception side, and in my view, that means a directional antenna.

Wifi plans are based on speed parameters and the monthly fee increases with more Mbytes, but all in marginal cost differentials. Examples attached below. It does not take many Netflix streaming users to max out the business subscriber's chosen data speed plan and / or installed equipment. There is always seems to be the limiting item that dogs down an otherwise robust system. And marinas often do things on the cheap, penny wise and dollar dumb on infrastructure. They receive the complaints from slip renters but they don't receive the beneficial enjoyment of evenings watching shows at the marina. A marina that is trying to gain occupancy or achieve higher rates may push for a larger bandwidth so as to receive favorable word of mouth. But if they have all their liveaboard slots full and have waiting lists there isn't much incentive to try to attract more, and if they have a lot of vacant slips then they are operating on a shoe string budget.

I also suspect that the ability to acquire the higher speed services at the location of the marina may be limited in many geographical areas. The support infrastructure leading to the marina may be a handicap. Services just not available at any price.

Anyway it is a simple matter to test the available download speed by taking one's lap top or tablet and stand near the wifi. If it is low and your near it, there ain't no fixing that.

[barnakiel]

Have you considered the obvious ...


sit yourself in the cockpit ...


or wherever the signal is not blinded by the topsides, furniture, windows, etc?


b.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by wingssail

I think you are wrong about this. Windows10 and my Dell recognize this as a WiFi antenna and Bear's documentation: (BearExtender Outdoor is a long range Wi-Fi booster for Microsoft Windows computers. It combines a high power Wi-Fi amplifier and a high gain 10 dBi directional antenna inside a durable IP65 certified water and dust resistant enclosure) says it is an amplified antenna. There is no router function or access point function and it does not radiate WiFi except to the access point to which it is connected.

Originally Posted by Wallaby

This Bear has a 10Db gain directional antenna inside the box. It also boosts signals from the computer to 1000mw. I understand most laptops put out about 150 mw signals. Hard to beat for the price. The USB connects to one computer, or to a router. It is NOT MacOs compatible.

Ah ok. To me that is not just an antenna. An antenna in my mind would plug directly into the antenna port on a router, or other device. There would be no software involved.

This device then seems to be an antenna plus some hardware/software that does something, and requires software/drivers. I'm not sure what i'd call it without knowing more about how it works and what the software does.

I guess as with many things, there is more than one way to skin a cat

On a separate note, I should add that the wifi in Yacht Port Cartagena, Murcia, Spain is fantastic. I regularly saw over 250 Mbps, in my tests.

Here in Curacao I get about 75Mbps on a 3g connection, but of course have limited data.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

Ah ok. To me that is not just an antenna. An antenna in my mind would plug directly into the antenna port on a router, or other device. There would be no software involved.

This device then seems to be an antenna plus some hardware/software that does something, and requires software/drivers. I'm not sure what i'd call it without knowing more about how it works and what the software does.

I guess as with many things, there is more than one way to skin a cat

On a separate note, I should add that the wifi in Yacht Port Cartagena, Murcia, Spain is fantastic. I regularly saw over 250 Mbps, in my tests.

Here in Curacao I get about 75Mbps on a 3g connection, but of course have limited data.

Mikedefieslife, Just to make it clearer, here are two Windows10 WiFi lists, one (on the rt), with standard PC WiFi antenna and the one, (on the left), with the Bear Extender, WiFi3

Note the better signal that the extender has.

Also, my Internet speed test here shows only 20Mbps but that is totally sufficient to stream video.

Barnakiel, going into the cockpit with a device and a standard antenna does not improve the Internet here, or most places I've been, since the problem with mulitipath propagation still occurs. and that is besides the problem that my PC is installed at the nave station, not the cockpit.

[bcboomer]

Not what the OP is looking for but we have an Island Time wifi antenna and have been happy with it. Pretty much plug and play which I need.
An interesting thing is that our marina wifi takes ages to download a small update file but Netflix works really well.

[CarinaPDX]

The first thing I would do is to check whether the marina has a 5GHz AP as well as the usual 2.4GHz AP. I am connecting to the 5 side of our marina and get good results.

Directional antennas are a mixed blessing. They certainly do allow for reaching more distant APs but they can actually reduce system throughput (that is, the performance experienced by all users). If your client doesn't receive the signals from other users, in addition to the AP, then it can obliterate their packets and result in re-transmissions - slowing things down. Also, if they can't receive your signal then they will transmit over you. This is bad for everyone. Of course with a powerful directional antenna you might be able to just overpower everyone but this mostly doesn't work out well due to the adaptive nature of the connections. It would be better to use a sector antenna that covers the entire marina (if on the edge) or just a higher gain omni-directional antenna. Just be certain that radiated power levels are reasonable - adjust downwards if needed - as often too much power just overloads the AP's receiver.

Another way to improve your performance is to help get some rational behavior among the marina wifi users. In the 2.4GHz band there are 11 channels in the US, but only 3 are non-overlapping (1,6,11). To avoid interference the marina should be operating on one of these 3 and everyone else on the other 2 - ideally. Re-using the same frequency on your boat directly reduces the bandwidth for the marina AP so don't do it. And the transmission rates are determined on a lowest-common-denominator basis so it just takes one person using an old wifi system to drag the speeds down. (The AP has to slow down so that it can read the slowest packets to determine if they are meant for it.)

By going to the 5GHz band many of these problems are avoided; the 2.4GHz band is always going to have issues in a public AP. Personally I have one client (TP-link or Mikrotik) that deals with the marina AP, and is connected with a POE (power-over-ethernet) ethernet connection to a switch in my local network. Attached to that network I have a low power dual-band "traveler" AP for local access - operating on different frequencies from the marina of course.

If you really want good streaming then use the cell network. T-Mobile has some good unlimited plans, including a plan for senior couples that is unlimited for both ($110 total). Just be certain to get at least a 4G LTE phone as there is a lot of bandwidth there. If I were buying now I would certainly get a 5G phone as the infrastructure is now available (T-Mobile at least) but there aren't a lot of users competing for it.

Greg

[CarlF]

As others have suggested, before investing in getting a good signal at the boat, take your laptop up to the marina office and see if you can stream Netflix at 7PM. At about 80% of marinas you can't.

I've had several of the extender products mentioned here but haven't used any for several years. It used to be enough to have good email in your slip. Now we expect streaming. It's much less frustrating to stream video using Verizon on my phone or iPad - I then connect that to the TV.

Another option that we use in the Bahamas is MyIsland Wifi that gives you a hotspot that supports 15 devices for $80/month unlimited. We streamed Red Sox games sitting in deserted Bahamian anchorages. MyIsland Wifi (the company) now has a US version. Truly unlimited - no caps or throttling - for $85/month. The Hotspot uses the AT&T bands. I don't have it yet but have heard good things.
https://finallywifi.com/?fbclid=IwAR...0DPemk6Awx7x-U

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Snore

I really don’t want to reinvent the wheel, so here it goes.

The free marina Wi-Fi signal is marginal in my cabin. What is the most cost-efficient doo-dad I can buy to receive and repeat the signal. I have several theories, and would like to hear some real world experiences.

Remember cost-efficient (Cheap). I am doing another 8 days in quarantine and want to see Netflix at night

We use an o2Air router from Radio Labs, inside the saloon. It receives both 2.4 and 5 gHz WiFi much better than laptop adapters, and then it also acts as a router so down-stream devices don't have to re-login every time you move.

Their printed setup instructions sucked. The wizard works fine, especially if you know general router-speak. Their help system is pretty good.

Can't say as Netflix will improve. You can have great reception, but the marina's system may have really crap throughput.

-Chris

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by CarlF

As others have suggested, before investing in getting a good signal at the boat, take your laptop up to the marina office and see if you can stream Netflix at 7PM. At about 80% of marinas you can't.

I've had several of the extender products mentioned here but haven't used any for several years. It used to be enough to have good email in your slip. Now we expect streaming. It's much less frustrating to stream video using Verizon on my phone or iPad - I then connect that to the TV.

Another option that we use in the Bahamas is MyIsland Wifi that gives you a hotspot that supports 15 devices for $80/month unlimited. We streamed Red Sox games sitting in deserted Bahamian anchorages. MyIsland Wifi (the company) now has a US version. Truly unlimited - no caps or throttling - for $85/month. The Hotspot uses the AT&T bands. I don't have it yet but have heard good things.
https://finallywifi.com/?fbclid=IwAR...0DPemk6Awx7x-U

I'm a beta tester for the 6-antenna router; 2 each 2.4 and 5GB (fast and faster) and 4.0 inbound (cell signal). If your device can use it, log into the 5g version as it's faster to you...

That router takes a standard (I had one in stock AND it's the same as what we use for our monitor to double as a TV screen when we watch a movie) barrel plug (5.3/1.5mm, I think) and is happy with 12-24V. Very low draw (best I can tell is under 1/2A)

Usually it works very well. The owner is negotiating a package which will allow interface with any cell supplier; right now it prefers ATT, its core.

Their hotspot is the standard in the Bahamas. Truly unlimited. Many clients over a Terabyte per month, and several double-digit Terabytes.

Elsewhere I saw something about maybe using a G every couple/3 days. I use (with only a couple of hours a day on Facebook, SSCA business - I'm the VP - and my email client) well over a G per day, rapidly exceeding my T-Mobile phone tethering/hotspot 'unlimited' plan. Now that they're with Sprint, one MIGHT (have not yet checked) use their 50G phone-hotspot plan at a cheaper price.

But I like Leo's (Finally, and My Island, WiFi) solutions, so I've not pursued those options.

We also have the IslandTimePC.com setup from when WiFi was all you could get; we used to have a train of boats following us around, as we shared our signal, and could reach, under way, 7 miles offshore both US and Bahamas.

For strictly WiFi, drop them a line. The owner, Bob Stewart, as shown in many other threads here in CF, is the king of customer service. He also built our computer, FWIW. rstewart@islandtimepc.com...

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

There s also that Ubiquiti bullet thing. Many people have it and say it works very well over longer range than plain banana gear.


barnakiel

I have that atop my mast, with an 8dbi antenna, and commonly reached 7 miles offshore, under way, for email and newsgroups (of the time).

At rest, it's a killer.

But if you're not a geek, you'll go crazy trying to set it up. Go to IslandTimePC.com, and/or write to Bob Stewart, the owner, at rstewart@islandtimepc.com.

Other threads here in CF confirm my high opinion of him...

[Snore]

..



Thanks to all for the thoughts that have ranged from the original design spec-“CHEAP” to expensive.

Here is a report on what happened.

Purchased a basic repeater and an extension cord. The repeater was placed next to cabin winches - by companionway with the winch behind the device. The repeater barely “saw” the Wi-Fi signal. While it did connect the device could not connect to the internet.

Second attempt- used longer extension cord and held repeater in stern, being careful that neither my body or any other item obstructed the line of sight to the Wi-Fi. The Wi-Fi signal strength on my iPhone, laying on the bench next to me, was stronger than what the repeater was getting.

While repeaters may work for some, don’t through out the packaging! It is very likely you will need to return the repeater as it may not solve the issue.

Please note the repeater was reset several times to make sure that the problem was not a one-off anomaly. The repeater was also reset each time it was moved.

It would appear that a powered antenna is needed- hence the additional cost of the higher end units.

Since I have only a few more days of quarantine left, I will save the funds for the “end of Q” restaurant takeout order.

[capt.rob]

I just put in a BELKIN wi fi booser in my boat yesterday, I was just getting 1-2 bars have full 5 now with plenty of speed for streeming. cost about 30 dollars at wall mart in just a couple ince cube that plugs in a standard wall socket and works from inside the cabin but you need 110 shore power it's not 12 volt. just be sure and put the face towards thw wufi signal that is were the antenna is located. I tried one of those ebay long range extenders and it didn't work. Had the belkin at the house I moved from so thought I'd try it and does a great job. should have tried it frist before wasting 40 bucks on a long range outdoor booster.