Equipment list for Pacific crossing

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Tidjian

On the note of refrigeration. We spoke of insulating a dorm fridge so it could operate in ambient temperatures 85°~. Also on power consumption of how hard or long it would be running.

I was kind of thinking an ice maker would run less often, no? I mean your typical countertop ice maker runs what, an hour or three to make a bucket of ice? Given those are designed for ambient temperatures of 72~80°. Comparing them to their marine designed brothers and sisters the biggest factor and price jump I'm seeing is the insulation value. A 15" countertop is about $150 at costco. A 15" marine is $1500. Now I know part of the markup is the fact it's designed for a specific use and there's money in boat users to be had. The rest is that it's just better built with proper insulation to run in any weather.

But I'm sure like insulating the exterior of a dorm fridge you could insulate an ice maker. Alternatively to an ugly foam insulation job. Couldn't you take said components from that Danby ice maker and retrofit them into say a heavy duty Coleman cooler designed to keep ice frozen for 3~5 days in ambient temperatures of 95°~? It might take some fiddling but I couldn't see why you wouldn't be able to. Just trying to brainstorm affordable ways to add some level of refrigeration even if it's only used casually when you get a nice catch and want to save it for a couple days. Or when you're at port.

I'll likely be living on this boat a large portion of my time away to save on travel expenses. I won't always be on battery power. But adding big chunks of investment into $1500~2k fridges and ice makers isn't an option.

there are several threads on here about using small apartment style fridges off an inverter on here . I would strongly recommend if you do go that route do not add insulation to the outside of the unit. The condenser coils are fitted into the sides of the box. Adding insulation will retain the heat you are trying to get rid of.
An ice maker is designed to produce a couple pounds of ice cubes for the daily sundowner not keeping stuff frozen in an ice box. Just find a spot to secure a dorm type fridge and run it off an inverter. Or spend anywhere from about 800 to upwards of 3k for an icebox conversion kit to turn the existing icebox into a refrigerator. ( or buy a boat that already has this conversion done.

[TrentePieds]

Re #186

Trust Jim to put it in a nutshell! Bravo, Jim :-)!

And Tidjian, I think a lot of us are worried, though too polite to say so, that you will spend money on "toys" (toys pretending to be seamanlike gear) that you should be spending on getting a GOOD boat, a boat fit for your purpose.

But I see your understanding growing :-)

I've suggested before that you spend the winter setting up a checklist with two rubrics — 'essentials" and "nice to haves" — using some particular boat, such as the Islander 32 someone suggested, as a departure point for your considerations. Fit 'er out in your imagination and fill in your checklist as you go with the type of gear required/desired.

When you come to inspect an actual candidate-boat, the checklist will guide you, and you will find that much of what is on your list will already be aboard her. You can then, in your mind, add, replace or discard clobber to bring 'er into conformity with your checklist thereby determining whether she really IS a candidate.

That sort of work is COST FREE, and highly educational :-) It can save you a whole lot of money, and, possibly, even your life.

You already know that thinking is free, mistakes are expensive :-)!

TP

[Tidjian]

I gotcha TP. Was just brainstorming cool ideas. Don't worry I wouldn't value a mini fridge over something essential to safety. My money will go first and foremost to the boat then to essentials and then if I can afford the luxuries I'll toy with the cheapest way to obtain them.

[Hobie_ind]

As others have pointed out already, those portable icemakers are really designed to make a bit of ice for drinks. The power usage to keep an icebox stocked even for short periods of time will really overwhelm the size of solar system / battery bank that you're considering on the size of boat. Additionally, they require a relatively substantial inverter to power as they're 110v.

We had the exact one you're describing for 3 years on the boat and loved it..... to make ice for drinks occasionally. They actually don't start making ice for 20+ minutes to start while they cool down, then the first batch is pretty light and quite soft as the system is still cooling down, the second batch is reasonable but still a little softer than normal (around 3/4 of a cup of ice), then the 3rd batch is reasonably thick and solid. Now you've had it running for a bit over an hour (drawing probably 1-1/2 times what your planned solar panels are putting out so drawing down your batteries during the middle of the day when you're trying to catch up) and you've got about 1-1/2 cups of ice total. For the budget you're describing and the boat size, I think you'll likely be living without refrigeration.

It can easily be done as proven by many. Good friends have done a full circumnavigation without one (only an icebox that was usable for about a week and half on each leg). We spend a lot of time with a French cruiser in Fiji and Vanuatu on a 34' Wharram cat that didn't have refrigeration (he actually salted his meat before crossings). Another couple we know spent about 7 years living aboard and 1/2 a circumnavigation without refrigeration before installing one in NZ while we were there.

One book you might find interesting is:
'Voyaging on a Small Income' by Annie Hill

https://www.amazon.ca/Voyaging-Small.../dp/1888671378

I had a copy, but gave it to a young couple we met on a 27 Albin Vega that had just started cruising and were going through many of the same outfitting decisions you are.

She actually goes into a lot of detail on the decision making process (and life cycle cost analysis) they used to decide whether to install various systems such as refrigeration, type of propulsion, sails, etc. , and their lifestyle changes to meet their cruising goals (ie. diet, etc.) As the book was written in the early 90's the numbers are a bit dated, but I still think you might find it a good resource.

Mark

[TrentePieds]

:-) It's an old, old saw that "nothing so focuses your thoughts as the prospect of being shot in the morning". It's not unreasonable to modify that a little: "Nothing so focuses your thoughts as the prospect of going to sea in the morning" ;-0)!

TP

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "For the budget you're describing and the boat size, I think you'll likely be living without refrigeration."

Precisely! I was just working up to a screed on just that topic. As one of the last of the people old Lord Sifton called "sturdy European peasants in sheepskin coats", I think I'm fit to elaborate on that :-). I'd never seen a refrigerator until I was a grown man, and me granny never saw one in all her life! "Nur in Amerika!" as the oldtimers used to say :-)

In TP we don't have anything more than an icebox. Fortunately it's quite small, so try as MyBeloved may, she can't shift enuff boughten ice through it to bugger the budget :-) Being a native of North Vancouver and a good deal younger than I, she can't possibly conceive how you can live without a fridge/freezer, etc., etc. But she is learning. So will you :-)!

What we DO have in TP is what I call "the root cellar" (there is that peasant again, eh?). It's a locker BELOW WL. Now hereabouts, at that depth in the Salish Sea, the Japanese Current keeps the water we float in at something like 48ºF (9ºC) all year round. Luvverly. That's little more than the interior temperature of yer standard domestic fridge! Ice? In drinks? You must be kidding! Totally kills the taste of a good ale. And wine? Why do you suppose you cuddle the goblet in your hands for a few minutes before you savour the contents? I mention it only because this is another situation, like dealing with prop-walk, where you should take advantage of what nature offers you, rather than fight it :-)!

On passage you eat entirely differently from how you eat ashore. Provisioning and preparing "keeper" meals to use on passage is a whole science unto itself. "Lay days", planned days with the hook down or alongside, are MEANT for just that purpose, as well as "make and mend"s. But that's for another day.

Cheers!

TP

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by Tidjian

It's $850 for my size boat but there seemed to he a lot of stipulations. You had to put a $1800 deposit down and pending you have no hiccups you get the difference back. It did say you can hire an agent to go through. It also said something about needing 4 or 5 people on your boat. Maintaining a minimum of 5 or 6 knots through the canal. Etc etc. Also was reading they prefer everything electronically so I would have to setup a lot of it while at port. Also isn't the Carribean season very early? I was told people usually start departing for the Canal in May? So I would have to head down there as soon as March if I wanted to enjoy it and not sail right through. It just seems far easier to tow the boat cross country even if I towed it all the way down to California.

Ann thank you for the insight. I will strongly consider your advice.

How about for now I will continue planning and preparing for the trip. However I will try to dissuade myself from departing this year and look into other options. Maybe as you say see about doing a season out in Vancouver or doing a season off the coast of San Fransisco. I believe you can visit the U.S. for up to 6 months without a visa. But in the mean time with your guys help I'll gain some useful knowledge and properly outfit my vessel so when I'm ready she'll be ready. Maybe I will also start researching the Carribean and consider another trip down the east coast and a couple months down there pending I can make the season.

Don't let the Canal intimidate you. You get the deposit back in a few weeks. You need four line handlers but there are always people looking to do this for the experience - often other cruisers who want to see it before taking their boat through. You can get an agent but this is only an extra cost you can do the arrangements yourself even without Spanish skills. You need four long lines which you can rent cheaply if needed. Your are likely to go through the canal with outer sailboats and since your boat is smaller you will be rafted on someone. We are 45' and 40,000 lbs and we were rafted to a bigger boat..

When you consider the costs of going to one place it is a mistake to focus on one thing, you need to consider everything. In Panama, the Canal is what it is and not too expensive for what you get. They do nail you with fee after fee for immigration, customs, internal clearance fees between cities, health charges, biosecurity charges - you get the idea. On the other hand, provisioning in Panama City is wonderful with a great selection to choose from a very low prices - Chilean wines were $2 a litre for example.

Since you live in Toronto I would buy a boat somewhere between Lake Ontario and Florida and spend some time in the Caribbean before heading west. Some countries make cruising very difficult or near impossible - Viet Nam is one. Also note that the Philippines is subject to typhoons over a long storm season and southern parts have had terrorist problems. You might consider Indonesia, it is very cheap, the country is interesting and the people most welcoming. It is easy to get from Indonesia to Malaysia and Thailand. A side note, New Zealand is wonderful but it can be a nasty passage from Tongo to NZ, going to Brisbane for cyclone season is easier.

[JPA Cate]

Tidjian,

Jim and I cruised from SF to French Polynesia and return, without refrigeration, and if you start another thread on cruising without it, we would be glad to share what little we learned about it. The fact is, it is doable. Another thing to wrap your head around is that one can really fast for a day, just keep up fluids, if it is too rough to cook, or even pour boiling water. (You con't want to get burned.)

Another source of info on living without refrigeration are the earlier Foxfire books, and they make interesting reading.

Ann

[Sailmonkey]

If you’re still looking at tiller pilots, these

https://pelagicautopilot.com/collect...h-tiller-drive

Are far better than the plastic encased failures on the market.

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by Tidjian

So here is my list of what I want to outfit her with. Looking for suggestions. Keep in mind I'm on a budget, she's not a large boat and again I'm on a budget.

Nav/Sonar & electronics:

Hummingbird Helix 5 vs Garmin Echomap CHIRP vs Simrad Go7 XSE - you may be able to pick up a good chart plotter used from an earlier generation - it will be more than adequate.
Lsatphone2 vs Iridium 9575 Extreme Any satphone is expensive to buy and to use; we cruised for 5+ years and did not feel the loss

ICOM M324G vhf with GPS
Shakespeare 5400-XT antenna not sure you need to focus on particular models since new ones are coming out all the time. Look to see what is on sale at the time when you are looking for something. We have very much liked buying stuff from Defender but shipping to Canada is costly so buy when you are in the US

3x ALL POWER 100w solar panels (flexible) solar panels, especially fixed ones are much less costly than in the past; make sure you get a good controller (or controllers depending on shade conditions)

2x marine batteries I think you want three batteries one dedicated to starting and other two (deep cycle) for house use. Get the largest house batteries that will fit in the space you have.

Katadyn survival 35 desalinator (manual) Also consider collecting rainfall, which is very available in the tropics; this can be a simply as a towel put at the downstream edge of the tank fill to direct water into the tanks, after you let the first bit or rain clean off the salt. You might have jugs of water for drinking and cooking and use the tanks for other things; also have salt water piped to the galley sink. You can use it for washing and then use a little fresh for a rinse

12v 2000 gph bilge pump And a good manual pump.

Emergency:

First aid fully loaded
Echomax solar still desalinator Probably not needed since you have the manual one
Revere offshore life raft 6 personWith a small crew you do not want such a large raft since the designers assume the wait of five or six people. With one person you will get thrown around a lot. A four person is more than adequate and will save you some money. Check out the cost of recertification of the raft and think of the cost of ownership over several years. We have a Viking and it was not expensive to buy but very costly for recert

Paratech sea anchor 8000lbs 25' We carried one for close to 40,000 nm and did not once consider using it. If you want something like this a Jordan Series Drogue makes more sense since it is easier to deploy and recover, which would mean you would likely use it more often.

Not sure if I'm leaving anything out. But that's what is on my list right now. What I'm looking for is advice on a better navigation system with route planning. Also not sure if anyone has any tips on sat phone or companies to go with.

I was considering iPad with Navionics+ but I was looking at internet prices but I have yet to find an affordable one.

We have an iPad with Navionics as a backup and have found it to be very useful for planning as well. The chart packages are much cheaper than the Navionics ones for the main plotter as well.

There are pages of suggestions here much of it useful so you have a lot to digest but I thought I would comment on your original list, keeping in mind that you likely are looking at a different boat than the Gramp. See my comments above.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Tidjian

And thank you to the other suggestions (not sure why my phone doesn't seem to update forum posts that quickly).

If I have to shuffle things around to get a windvane system I guess I'll have to. Or maybe try to make one and get the auto pilot and save the vane as a backup. If the boat, like that Bristol comes with one great. I'm just having a very hard time finding them used for sale and new ones range from $3000-6000. The couple used I've found have been over $2k.
..................
I was trying to cut down on canned goods because of the weight. But if it's the better method.

Make you own wind vane and fit it and use it....

Mine is a trim tab on auxiluary rudder job, built for me by a friend some 16 years ago cos I couldn't afford one of the fancy ones. No string involved... works good. I'll hunt out some pics and put them on my profile page.

Moving right along.... canned goods and food in general... and refrigeration....

Earlier this year I did a 60 day trip with no resupply and no working fridge... I admit it was in a cool climate , certainly not tropical..... we were still eating vacuum packed meat at the end of the 60 days.

Its a fairly big fridge ice box with pretty rubbish insulation so we filled it half full of ice from a fishermen's co-op.... loaded hard frozen vacuum packed meat on top along with frozen bottles of water, vacuum packs of bacon etc 'til it was full as a goog....

Ice lasted about 2 or 3 weeks by memory ... meat lasted whole way... cabin temp probably between 18* and 12*C during the trip.

Canned goods? You aren't going to sea for that long... what do you reckon... 30 days max and your fresh will last much of that. My list of preserved stuff....canned fruit ... peas, beans, baked beans, tomatoes, lesser quantities of beetroot, pimientos... good for vitamin C, tinned fish ( combine with potato for fish pie). Jars.... dill cucumbers, pickled onions. Packet soup, Packet noodles, pasta. Long life milk.

I don't bother with rice... too long to cook... messy. Shipped a BIG bag of spuds in April ... ate the last of them 2 weeks ago... ate the last of the same vintage onions at the same time. Spuds only take a few minutes in a pressure cooker. Cabbage lasts long time if you peel off the leaves rather than cut it.

Fresh fruit? Oranges and apples keep well enough, bananas not so much.

Dried food requires water... tinned food does not. I don't carry canned meat... it's all gross....

Oh.... hot sauces and curry powder....

[Don C L]

This thought puzzle continues to pique my interest. I was puttering around on the boat yesterday... which at 29' and 8' beam probably would be a good candidate for the cheapest way to cross the Pacific safely. And as always take it with a grain of salt cuz these days I am just sailing around the local islands. First of all, not much mention yet of the bread and butter items like sails and rigging. I'd be adding some chainplates and new lowers for my boat. Now remember, all these things are said because it is a small boat.
Now this may stir up some debate but the advice for a 24-29 foot boat is significantly different from a 32' on up, in my book:
For cooking I'd have my gimbaled Origo alcohol stove. My good friend the rigger definitely doesn't agree with that but, to me, eliminating the complexity of propane is worth it. (And don't waste fuel and water boiling pasta for God's sake.) Now as for the head. I'd take the usual head with its hoses and holding tank and throw it away, and I'd cap off the through-hulls. (Some may make fun of my Porta-potty but having gone the head/holding tank route, for a small boat, I ain't got no complaints. I haven't tried the composter/dessicater yet, but I hear positive things about those too.) And I'd cap off the through-hull for the sink drain too. Just collect what LITTLE goes down there in a jug and toss it over. You are most likely NOT going to be washing dishes down below, and if you are, why? In my boat I might even cap off the through-hull for the cockpit drains in favor of large drains that empty out through the well in the lazarette. The fewer holes in the boat, the better. I would not plan on refrigeration at all, and since ice will run out, better to just plan on no cold stuff at all, except for what you can get from the "root cellar."
I'd opt for 2 of the new generation of anchors and at least 150' of the super duper 1/4" chain for the bow, and probably 50 and a whole bunch of nylon rode for the stern) but I'd stow it all as low as possible under the mast and make sure it cannot move if the boat is knocked down. (In fact I'd be sure nothing could move if inverted, especially batteries.)
I'd bring a drogue and a para-anchor (and I'd have fittings for them bolted in the hull), a life raft and exposure suits, and I know they will most likely turn black with mold before getting used.. and here is the thing about the little boat, you need to have emergency items handy, but because they take up so much space, where/how will they be stowed? That can only be answered by looking at the boat's own interior lay-out. And too, there will be at least a couple bags of extra sails.
Definitely solar, but no sharp edges and easily folded away to reduce windage and wave-age (ok I made that word up, but the fewer things to give a wave to act on, the better.) Definitely a good self-steering vane with spare parts. I may or may not include a Tillermaster... probably not... lukewarm on those I am even though many small boat cruisers have them......
Not mentioned much yet, but a good first aid supply. Injury, if you are singlehanding, is something to give a lot of thought to... how to prevent it, how to remedy it, and what the boat will be doing if you are disabled. I just slipped and fell on my boat the other day and nearly broke my leg. When I go into boats and see lots of sharp edges, no good hand holds (or hand holds that will break if I really had to use them) and things that can fall, I kinda cringe. And for that matter, when I see sharp edges out on deck I also get the willies. Maybe I am a klutz, but if there is a chance to fall and hurt myself, I almost always avail myself of it! I'd child-proof the boat.
Anyway just some rambling thoughts based on my escapades in small boats...

[TrentePieds]

Yes, listen to Ping :-)! And begging the moderators' pardon for the drift: Going from SoCal to the Philippines (which I don't intend to do, cos it's too late for me) I think I'd provision for 60 days rather than 30.

I think I mentioned somewhere that in days of yore the SURVIVAL ration of water was 1/2 pint (125ml or so) per man per day, and that was the outfit in lifeboats. To lend perspective to that, a standard can of Campbell's condensed soup contains over twice that, viz 284ml. So you make yourself a can of tomato soup and you take in enough water to keep you going under survival conditions for four days!

I keep harping on the fact that the world is only comprehensible if you QUANTIFY it. Some other numbers: I'm just a medium sized bloke and rather "over the hill", but to keep going with enuff oomph to reef a 400 foot sail with any semblance of efficiency I need 4K calories a day. I'm on the upper end of requirements. Just the genes. But for a 60 day job I would then need 240,000 calories in total, however that total would be made up. Anyone in moderately good health can do a 60 day stretch on a diet that isn't a "healthy" diet as long as it has bulk and starch enuff. You just need the energy. You don't even need an antiscorbutic as long as the end is in sight! I eat six medium sized spuds a day, so there is 240 spuds for the voyage. A medium sized spud weighs about 120g, say 4 oz., so there you have a shade under 60Kg or 150 lbs. of spuds.

When my SaintedFather was widowed, he didn't know how to boil an egg. I taught him to cook by long-distance telephone twixt Vancouver and Copenhagen. He wanted to know how to achieve a "balanced diet". "Dead easy", said I, "just make sure you have food of every colour on your dinner plate!" It sounds facile, but it really works :-)! I have lived by that rule for three score years. Carrots are right up there with spuds as "keepers".

I've been teaching MyBeloved to provision ship working backwards from a ten-day rotating meal plan. Proceed from a "portion plan" just like any professional cook does: so many grams of this, so many grams of that for any given dish. Then you add it all up and you have your provisioning schedule for the ten days. In your case, then just multiply by six and Bob's yer uncle :-)!

TP

[TrentePieds]

Don - and Tidjian, of course:

You are singing my song! A small boat is an entirely different beast from a big boat, and needs to be handled in an entirely different manner. What you learn in big boats, let alone grown-up ships, you often need to scupper in a small boat. What is small? I set the demarcation points much as you do: Small is less than 30 feet, "big" is more than 40 feet, and what's in between is neither fish nor fowl.

TP

[Don C L]

I should amend my previous ramblings. If you really felt you had to have some fresh stuff later in the trip, one thing I would consider in terms of cold, since we used to do this in my ol river running days, is to freeze all the perishables that can handle being frozen and then pack them in a cooler filled with water and put the whole thing in a walk-in freezer until you have a massive, heavy, block of insulated ice with food in it. That way as it melts you can chip off the top items as you go and you can wait a week or two before even opening it. Just have to have a good dedicated secure spot for the cooler. To me this would be more in the realm of luxury than necessity, but fresh meat or OJ or ice cold beer after 2 or 3 weeks without them sure are tasty!