Equipment list for Pacific crossing

[GordMay]

I wish you the very best of luck!

A Grampian 23 may not be the best choice for a Pacific cruise/crossing. For instance, you may have difficulty finding space/capacity to store enough food, water, & fuel (if you have an O/B) etc.

➥ GRAMPIANÂ* 23

[Pete7]

Gord, has dropped a very subtle hint, let me be a little blunter, what is the chance of you listening to the sage advice of the forum and perhaps changing the boat for something still small but far more suitable?

I suggest you follow in the foot steps of Tania Aebi, at least read the book but preferably buy a similar boat.

Home

If that doesn't appeal then same again, only its Matt Rutherford:

https://solotheamericas.org/

Read the book, better still buy a similar boat.

What you are currently planning is akin to Shane Acton's RTW voyages and all the hardships and risk that went with them. He made it, you might not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Acton

[Benz]

Gord and Ann are right--the Grampian is a very small and light displacement boat for such a trip. Success, however, will depend largely on you and your skill and resolve.
But I think you're asking the wrong question. It should not be: "how much stuff do I need or can I cram in here?" But "Given the space and weight constraints, how little can I get away with?"
On a boat that small, you don't really have the luxury of multiple backups: your primary should be robust enough to get you through. So, if you're bothering with paper charts (which I certainly would), then use them exclusively, and bring two AA-battery handheld GPS units. Instead of trying to keep batteries topped up without a genset or inboard diesel, consider doing without, and using AA-powered LED headlamps and nav lights. All my electronics run on AAs, and LED headlamps are cheap.
All the money saved on satphones and software can then be used to insure that the rigging and structure of the boat are up to the task, and for having a storm jib made and third (or second) reef put in the main.

[Pete7]

To follow on from Ben's excellent summary, some bed time reading:

http://www.bluemoment.com/pdf/shrimpy.pdf

[Tidjian]

In regards to anchors. If I switched my main anchor to a 14lb plow anchor (says up to 31' boat) with the 100' 1/4" chain. I could go with a 9lb fluke anchor for my secondary but could I avoid the chain? If I was going to set it off the stern to avoid swing could I say do 10' of chain and X amount of nylon to cut down on weight? Then I could keep my current fluke solely as an emergency anchor.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Tidjian

Okay. I could always switch anchors if your have a better suggestion for what I should use. Right now my anchor is nylon rope with a chain end. I believe the chain is around 6' in length. The boat is a 23' Grampian. Nothing fancy but I think she can make the journey. Will be a bit crampt but I'll make due.

I can look into a windlass ........

That Grampian 23 isn't much of a boat to be crossing the Pacific Ocean in.

It's quite light with not a lot of ballast. You may want to choose something different unless this is just a stunt to prove you can cross on such a boat that's not suited for such a crossing

I'd be worried even out in the bay here on that boat with a strong NE Wind off the ocean due to the way the stern is. A steep 5'-6' wave might swamp the thing on a downwind run.

GRAMPIAN 23 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Also, the least of your worries will be a windlass for the anchor you'll be using for a boat that size.

I have a 20 lb CQR and if it's windy and the current is strong, I just put the outboard in gear and work the anchor in with the engine's assistance.

If you have closely spaced waves, it will be a bit of a workout but you'd probably need that after sitting around on a boat so long out cruising

[Tidjian]

If I were to sell this boat and grab a more suitable one under 30' (I don't think my 1500 can tow anything bigger and a new truck is not in the budget). Do you guys have any suggestions on what style or make I should look for? Keep in mind whether it's safer or more suitable I don't have $20k+ laying around. I got this boat a few years back with sails and the o/b for $2800. Assuming I can sell it around $2-2.5k I would be MAYBE looking at $5-7k tops. Again the more I sink in the boat the less I'll have to not only properly equip it but to resupply when I get there. It's one thing getting there but I still need to be able to afford whatever port fees and resupply costs will be. It would be a shame to spend everything on a one way trip then have to sell the boat there to fly home.

Looking in my area there are 3 boats in my price range.

Ericson 27 Bruce Design with an in-board
25' Buccaneer 240
26' Columbia MK

[robert sailor]

Forget a tri sail on the main, these days it's not needed because the sail quality is much better. If you don't have it it's not a bad idea to put in a 3rd reef and that would be your storm sail. Shouldn't cost too much on that little sail. You haven't mentioned whether your head sail is hanked on or if you have a furler??? Don't get that little bugger over loaded, your performance and safety will be compromised.
Your going to have to really make some tough decisions on a boat that small and light. If it was me I'd carry a 20 pound primary anchor and maybe a 6 pound Danforth as back up and call it a day. Odds are your going to make your whole trip just using your primary anchor but you still need a backup, if you had the coin you could probably buy a 3 pound fortress made from aluminum. Spend your money on good ground tackle and save it on electronics. You need chain to anchor around coral so get 100 feet of the lightest chain you can purchase, probably 3/16" inch, your hand bombing the chain so you don't need something to fit a windless and 200 feet of nylon rode. Personally on your boat I'd take a pass on refrigeration, ya it's nice to enjoy a cool beer but the weight your going to be carrying and the money it costs to me isn't worth it. We cruised in the tropics for 2 years with no fridge and we didn't even use an ice box. How do you think the old timers lived without a fridge. There are all sorts of tricks on keeping food and making it last a reasonable time without a fridge. I'll give you an example..take 3 beer and put it in a gunny sack, hopefully you know what a gunny sack is..anyways dunk the sack in the water with the beer in it and attach it to a halyard and raise it up near the top of the mast, leave it there for an hour and pull it down and dunk it in sea water again and pull it back up..within an hour or so youll have 3 cool beer, not cold, but cool. It works on evaporation just like the first air condition sytems did.

[akprb]

Originally Posted by Tidjian

So here is my list of what I want to outfit her with. Looking for suggestions. Keep in mind I'm on a budget, she's not a large boat and again I'm on a budget.

Nav/Sonar & electronics:

Hummingbird Helix 5 vs Garmin Echomap CHIRP vs Simrad Go7 XSE
Lsatphone2 vs Iridium 9575 Extreme

ICOM M324G vhf with GPS
Shakespeare 5400-XT antenna

3x ALL POWER 100w solar panels (flexible)
2x marine batteries
Katadyn survival 35 desalinator (manual)
12v 2000 gph bilge pump

Emergency:

First aid fully loaded
Echomax solar still desalinator
Revere offshore life raft 6 person
Paratech sea anchor 8000lbs 25'

Not sure if I'm leaving anything out. But that's what is on my list right now. What I'm looking for is advice on a better navigation system with route planning. Also not sure if anyone has any tips on sat phone or companies to go with.

I was considering iPad with Navionics+ but I was looking at internet prices but I have yet to find an affordable one.

You’re going to fit all this on a 23’ Grampian?

Nylon rode with 6’ of chain?

Longest passage to date and what waters are you currently operating in?

[akprb]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

There are very few sturdily built pocket cruisers, and I'm wondering if the OP has the knowledge or experience to tell the difference.

A.

JPA Cate raises an interesting question. Seems to me OP should first consider asking for this advice solely from folks who have actually crossed the Pacific.

Second, if considering giving advice to the OP without this experience what you may be encouraging.

When in the Coast Guard long ago I was lifted off a comfortable 327’ cutter and plopped down on a 30’ “sailboat” somewhere north of Bermuda to help the singlehanded sailor (he had been adrift for days) with his DOG and 5 million fleas get to Nantucket or Newport or whatever we could hit.

Why young me? I was the only “sailor” on the ship.

As I read these questions I’m reminded of my conversations with that dreamer who put his life and the lives of many others at risk. As far as his life goes that’s his business, free to do what he wants. It’s the other lives that give me pause.

Encouraging a trans Pacific passage on a 23’ Grampian may not be the most compassionate exercise.

That being said perhaps a goal of hoppIng down the West coast and building some internet free experience might be a good beginning step.

[ArmyDaveNY]

For the EPIRB consider one with a battery that you can replace yourself. ACR, and I am sure others, sell them. The benefit of this is that you can carry a spare battery or two. When activated, they last forty-eight hours per the manufacturer at -4 F and longer at warmer temperatures. Having a second or third battery will give you over a week of signal in truly bad conditions, giving rescuers an opportunity to find you if conditions are bad.

[Don C L]

Ok, I had a Columbia 24 for many years and now have a Columbia 29.
First off, go to atomvoyages.com and see what Mr. Baldwin has written and how he has modified some pocket cruisers.
Second, the Grampian is not a good choice. Sorry. And this is coming from someone who has done some goofy things. In my youth a friend of mine outfitted his Columbia 24 to go to Hawaii (from Santa Barbara.) We headed out for a few days and my poor friend was so sea-sick the whole time we decided to return to try it some other time. But the boat was fine and was just barely able to carry all the stuff we needed. But we didn't need much. In those days (1981) we had no electronics to speak of. No solar. No GPS. And only a home-made QME windvane (which worked great BTW)
The Columbia 26 MK1 is a possibility, yes. And to my mind, has the advantage of the outboard well which is covered and with some minor modification allows the engine to be tilted up and remain enclosed. You'll need all the interior space you can find so not having an inboard is not necessarily a deal breaker. You need to know what you are looking at in terms of how the boat was constructed and many of the 60s boats are still strong. That particular 26 is also a little faster than the tubbier life-boat kind of designs. Speed and tankage/stowage are the two main liabilities in a pocket cruiser imo.
Now if your requirement is a good "bluewater" boat you can also trailer behind a good pick-up well the Columbia 26, and others in that range and displacement could work. But realistically I think you are better advised to get a boat that is in the displacement neighborhood of 6000# and up, and with a displacement to length ratio of at least 300.
Here are some boats I'd push you toward:
COLUMBIA 26 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
ARIEL 26 (PEARSON) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
well, heck, here's Baldwin's list, he's done the homework...
Atom Voyages - Good Old Boats List

This thread may have some useful stuff too for you:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...al-153058.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-175409-2.html

Cruisers & Sailing Forums - The Small Boat Cruiser

Good luck and don't let old farts like me discourage you too much. It's a lot of fun to go out and make your own way, we'll just try to steer you clear of the really big and dumb mistakes that we survived.

[Scott Berg]

Assuming you have two (2) cockpit winches you can make up two chain lines (about 30' of 3/8" Dacron (low stretch) with a hook for your chain on each one. Then use the cockpit winch to pull up the nylon rode and when you get to the chain rode use the other winch for the first 20 feet or so, then back to the other (back and forth leaving chain on the deck). I used that system with 150' of 5/16" Chain and no windlass for years.

[zstine]

I'm not going to try to add to your list, but make a few $$ saving comments about what you plan..

I second the notion of using OpenCPN on a laptop, tablet, phone. Multiple devices provides redundancy. You don't need internet for Navionics. It works off line and is a fine addition for navigation. Marine specific chartplotters are antiquated devices.... like hand held GPS. Who buys those anymore!? why get something standalone when your cell phone, tablet, and laptop can all do the job?

Buy hard solar panels and mount on stern rail or figure out a pole mount. Hard panels are under $1/watt compared to $3/w for flexible. One 60 cell panel can give you 300Watt for under $300, but you need a controller too.

Why do you need a 6 person life raft for such a small boat!? get a 4 person max. size base on normal crew. I doubt you are going to have 6 live aboard that little boat.

Look at PLB vice EPIRB to save a few hundred. They do the same thing and unless you plan on sinking, the PLB has more function like saving a MOB. The battery won't last as long on a PLB, but it is usually heard within minutes, not hours or days.

good luck!

[akprb]

Originally Posted by Tidjian

If I were to sell this boat and grab a more suitable one under 30' (I don't think my 1500 can tow anything bigger and a new truck is not in the budget). Do you guys have any suggestions on what style or make I should look for? Keep in mind whether it's safer or more suitable I don't have $20k+ laying around. I got this boat a few years back with sails and the o/b for $2800. Assuming I can sell it around $2-2.5k I would be MAYBE looking at $5-7k tops. Again the more I sink in the boat the less I'll have to not only properly equip it but to resupply when I get there. It's one thing getting there but I still need to be able to afford whatever port fees and resupply costs will be. It would be a shame to spend everything on a one way trip then have to sell the boat there to fly home.

Looking in my area there are 3 boats in my price range.

Ericson 27 Bruce Design with an in-board
25' Buccaneer 240
26' Columbia MK

If you get a chance read "ultra budget" on our site, sailingohana

I feel your passion for wanting to get out there, I really do. If anyone wants you to succeed it's me. I used to take my little J24 and sail out of Ponce Inlet as far as I could SE and then sail back and just imagine going to the Bahamas or Bermuda or wherever.

Two years ago a friends son bought a 1000.00 swing keel 24' something and with no experience took to Bahamas, just him and his girlfriend. He has a Dufour 30 now and has crossed the Atlantic and is currently cruising the Med. It is possible.

That being said your questions are at a 1000' level and the ones that need to be asked are at a 50,000' level.

Nothing makes me sadder than to walk around Yacht Haven in Nassau and look at all the 23' Grampians that got that far. Don't end up like one of them. Those who give advice around which anchor and which GPS are well intentioned but that is not the point.

My two cents, then I'll leave it alone, go sail from Vancouver to Port Townsend and back, better yet Astoria or San Francisco. Check back after that adventure and then take it to phase two. This will test not only you and your vessel but also your assumptions as to costs and your tolerance for discomfort.

Whatever you do try your best to never put others in a situation they didn't ask for as a result of your actions. I'm trying to figure out a PC way to say that, I hope you get it.

Side note, as I re-read your post at the top of this one, with the resources you are alluding to that is the likely outcome and the one that all those boats decaying in the Bahamas are the result of. Another question to ponder...