Equipment list for Pacific crossing

[Tidjian]

Wow okay. Well I definitely heed to and hear your concerns about the boat itself. So rest assured I will shop around. I have between now to May to reconsider my position. I do want some time, especially in a new boat, to practice on the coastal waters of Vancouver. I wouldn't feel right taking a newly acquired boat to sea without having ever used it. That being said I will ask what your opinions are on a Catalina 25 as there is one in my area in my budget that is in superb condition.
Pending that I am going to read some links especially on pocket cruisers so I don't continue with questions.

I did not mean to avoid the experience question. As I said in some other posts I definitely don't have off shore experience. I have mostly done a mixture of great lakes and Atlantic coastal sailing. I've sailed from Nova Scotia down to Florida twice. So comparing to minds that have circumnavigated or had 30 years of ocean experience I won't be in your league by a long shot. I'm gathering a lot of insight that a Pacific crossing may be out of my league. Especially with my boat. Just pointing that out so you don't think I'm ignoring the advice or hints.

So in the mean time I'll continue on my quest for research and advice. I would rather have your insight and go, than go without your insight. Especially when it could be the very thing that gets me through. But so no one is tossing and turning at night that this fool in a Grampian is going to go off and drown himself in the Pacific. I'll at least say I will consider everything said and on the off chance I don't go and instead decide to sail down to the Carribean, on a less dauntless voyage. I'll still be able to apply much of what I learn on your forums and from your lifetimes of experience. Much of which I'm sure will apply to sailing just about anywhere offshore.

So again I thank all of you for the helpful advice, even the plane ticket comment! I will surely read the articles you've taken the time to show me.

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "I have between now to May to reconsider my position"

Sez who??? Sez you? Well, I reckon you have the whole rest of your life to reconsider your position. Now, of course, that life may end in May if you cleave to an opinion that you and a Grampian 23 are an unbeatable duo :-)

Give it up, my friend. There is no shame in that. But there IS shame in having to be brought home - if they can find you - by the USCG/CCG.

C'est tout :-)!

TP

[Tidjian]

Originally Posted by captmikem

Well, here is a bit of well meaning suggestions….. now I have only been across the Pacific half a dozen times, so this is based on my limited experience:


Nav/Sonar & electronics:

Hummingbird Helix 5 vs Garmin Echomap CHIRP vs Simrad Go7 XSE

Lsatphone2 vs Iridium 9575 Extreme
Unless you have a lot of cash and a huge desire to talk to someone at great expense, you can do without this and it will save you a bunch of money. Also phones tend to give you a false sense of security. Deal with your problems at sea. You will gain more and feel better about it.

ICOM M324G vhf with GPS
Shakespeare 5400-XT antenna
You don’t really need a GPS on your VHF, you will find very little need for a VHF except for talking to friends when in port. ICOM is a very good unit, if you wish to save money buy a cheaper one, or a used one for about $100.

3x ALL POWER 100w solar panels (flexible)
2x marine batteries

Katadyn survival 35 desalinator (manual)
I carried one of these around the world twice, never used it, I would not take it again.

12v 2000 gph bilge pump
And a good manual bilge pump

Emergency:

First aid fully loaded
Echomax solar still desalinator
If it is cheap and small... might carry it, but it would not be high on the priority list.
Revere offshore life raft 6 person

Paratech sea anchor 8000lbs 25'
Again, I used to carry one of these.. never used it, now I don’t.

Not sure if I'm leaving anything out. But that's what is on my list right now. What I'm looking for is advice on a better navigation system with route planning.
Pretty Simple Rout Planning in the Pacific, and if you have Navionics or Open CPN you can do your rout planning at home and on the boat, Also not sure if anyone has any tips on sat phone or companies to go with.

I would add a good SSB (M700 is pretty cheap nowadays) and a Pactor modem, You can then have text emails and wx. And you can listen and talk to other cruisers and Nets while at sea. Verty useful piece of gear. And much less expnsive to operate than a sat phone.

I was considering iPad with Navionics+ but I was looking at internet prices but I have yet to find an affordable one. There aren’t any.
You can buy little USB internet cards in port that are not too bad, recharge them when you need them
One note, you see new folks loading up on “Safety” gear, they never use it. Look on youtube of people crossing the pacific, first couple of days they are bundled up life vests, harnesses, man over board alarms, and all sorts of gear. After a few days you will notice they are in shorts and ENJOYING being out in the cockpit or on deck.

Take some good books, videos, and star charts. Learn the environment and enjoy the peace and serenity of being at sea. Get out of this mentality that you have to have protection from every imagined event that could befall you. Take an epirb if it will give you peace of mind. But beware it is can give you an escape at any time…rather than should you actually need it.

Fair winds and enjoy the adventure.

M

Thanks for taking the time to do that.

You're right I don't need a GPS at all I suppose. Having one on my VHF was more of a (at least I won't have to figure out star charts) kind of thought. Could just take that location and manually plot my course with charts or using CPN on my laptop. Unless I'm missing something?

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There seems to be two routes to go. I don't see much difference in price between the two initially.

1. It's m700 ssb (If I can find one) or m802 ($2k+) and a pactor modem ($1200+). Can get email, weather alerts, plus further reach than vhf obviously for sos.

2. Iridium GO ($700-900) with either a monthly plan ($70-150) plus the pair option ($120) and then use my laptop to get weather alerts. Could also text email I'm sure. Free incoming calls and text messages if you pair to your phone. Plus can always call home or if need be call for help.

The way I see it is one has a lifetime (as long the electronics work) option with a hefty initial investment. The other is a cheaper investment but requires either a service plan or prepaid SIM. I guess you could argue a laptop may malfunction or the Iridium GO may break but so could either of the others. Thoughts?

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I get what you're saying about taking too much gear because you want to be prepared. It seems there's a lot of difference of opinion on that. Some people feel you shouldn't leave the dock without all the best stuff. Other people say take a PLB and hope for the best. I could probably drop some but I'm not sure I want to go bare minimum. I could downsize the life raft to something cheaper without a hood. I'll also of course have an inflatable offshore jacket with harness in any event. I'll add PLB to my list. I'm still pretty sold on the sea anchor especially since people keep pointing out the disadvantages of a light boat. It could be the thing that gets me through a rough squall. If I upgrade boats and the consensus is it's a waist then I'll cross it off. I am looking for a better manual bilge pump as the one I have doesn't meet the 10GPM suggested rating. Last the Katadyn desalination unit is pricey ($2200) for the 35 model. I could downgrade to the simple hand pump for $900 which is very light but still produces 1 cup of water in about 10 minutes. Since the sea produces fish but not drinkable water I kind of feel like its essential. It's easy enough to take even with my ditch bag or just hold with me should I lay there floating aimlessly in a jacket. If it was a heavy space consuming model like the electronic systems are I would probably pass on it.

[JPA Cate]

I'm glad to see you've done some sailing, Tidjian.

I'm going to tell a little story again, pls. forgive me, but it was what TP wrote about there being shame in being rescued. I think this is kind of an old fashioned concept, for most landsmen, but, our boat Insatiable (the first) was dismasted about 70 - 80 miles from harbor. We had checked out of Australia for New Caledonia from Sydney, so our diversion to Brisbane following destruction of our windvane during a knockdown, was going to mean that we had to re-enter a country we'd just left. Anyhow, we were hove to to wait for a wind shift when the mast came down. Don't really know why, but either a split pin (cotter pin) failed, or might have been plucked out by the stays'l sheet.

It wasn't a fun time, and I was more profoundly upset than Jim, who'd already been through a dismasting. However, I did feel that deep shame that something I failed to do might have led to the crippling of my boat. And, it was VERY important to me that we got her in under her own power. As it turned out, the Australian Customs Officer gave us permission to go straight to the marina, and came down to check us in the next morning, an extremely generous concession.

There really still exists the idea that one deal with the issue of the moment one's self. Now, there are conditions under which some of us would use our EPIRBS, and it might be instructive for you to ask that question, when do you think you might use one. What mikem wrote, alluding to the seductiveness of the EPIRB, that comes from many thousands of sea miles as a professional yacht skipper, with a number of tickets, and formal education as well. akprb has qualifications he's written about on CF. But back to the seductiveness of the EPIRB, if you want to join the fraternity of seamen, they will expect you to cope with your fear (we all have fear sometimes), but to "see the elephant", and figure out what you need to do. Who is at the top of this heap, to me, are the RTW singlehand racers: they show great creativity with problem solving, and staying alive to finish. Imho, the EPIRB is used much too freely, it's so easy to give the responsibility to others.

The most important priority is to keep the water on the outside of the boat.

A.

[Pizzazz]

There are two questions here, one is the intellectual exercise of getting the boat ready, the other one is if it is reasonable or if you should ever do it.

My view is that you need a boat with standing headroom which puts you in the 30'+ category. Even if you make the 30 day crossing, once you get there with your budget, you will need to continue living on the boat and it will get uncomfortable fast. However, if you are set to do it, my suggestions would be:

1. Make sure the boat, rigging, rudder, keel is structurally sound.

2. Check your sails, you need two headsails and two mains at a minimum. This does take space.

3. Two anchors but with little chain, may be 25-30 feet.

4. Inflatable dinghy plus an outboards motor that you share between the dinghy and the boat. Also, get one of these 700W gas inverter generators, small, economical and gives you a backup power source. I do not think you will be able to fit much solar on the boat. I would build a custom gas tank of at least 40-50 gallons somewhere in the back of the boat. This will give you the range and backup you need.

5. Charger, three batteries (2+1), some solar for backup. $450

6. Electronics: the Garmin 44dv is the best value for money (it includes worldwide charts, sonar, GPS, AIS) + an autopilot (used). Any DSC VHF radio will do. Backup should be phones, tablets, etc. No need for paper charts (no space) as long as you have enough backup. If you want to do weather, an SSB receiver + phone decoding for weatherfax. Above can be had for <$1,000.

7. You need a Power Survivor 35 for water, especially since you will have enough power now. Shop around for a used unit. Can be converted to manual in an emergency. You can also build one using a wiper motor. $300.

Some things I would not be getting on your budget: SSB radio plus Pactor (costly), liferaft (limited utility until you need it,

My suggestion would be, get the boat to this stage and do a few week long trips out of the Straight, in the ocean, in moderate weather. Then come back and share the experiences with us before you go.

[Tidjian]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Ya know, I'm still stuck about the payload of the boat. if it was built for day sailing with a maximum of 5 up, shouldn't Tidjian be looking at only 750 lbs, minus his own weight?

If you look at Cabo to Hiva Oa, a good take off point because the winds are better, it's on the order of 2, 635 mi, great circle course. At a 4 kn average, that is almost 33 days, and that would be a very good average speed for that boat, it may be too much, in fact. At 1/2 gal per day that's #132 lbs, just in water, and with no back up if you spend 3 days hove to or something breaks.

Advice to OP. Go figure out what your food needs would weigh. Plan a cushion there, and with the water--your life will depend on those. .....and maybe you'll need to reconsider some things. I mean, you have ignored questions about your experience, and I'm starting to wonder whether you get seasick, and what you would plan to do if you do.

Please understand something here: I do not have a problem with the pocket cruiser concept, I've met folks in a 22 ft. boat 1/2 way through a circumnavigation. I do not think this is madness, and have had the "madness" accusation leveled at me for our voyage in the Yankee. I question your experience and your choice of boat. And, I find it hard to take you seriously without any statement of your experience. Book learning and You tube learning only goes so far--just remember, unless the video camera is waterproof, you won't be seeing what could give that Grampian trouble.

The experience akprb and others keep referring to is what will make or break this effort. And you could lose your life over it. Do not plan on being rescued. You are only a small dot in a big ocean. The ocean is a very wet environment, and electronics do not like the salt sea air, do not trust the Satphone, there are too many things to go wrong.

Most of us who are sea people accumulated experience over a period of years before we jumped off--don't sell it short, as a concept, just through impatience. We can see how the experience has accumulated, and have come to value it. The ocean doesn't care about people in any way, you and your tiny ship are at the mercy of the wind and sea conditions, and the passage to the Marquesas takes you through the ITCZ, which can really slow your average speed down.

Ann

From what I could calculate there's about 1500lbs you can add before reaching the maximum draft. So assuming in the 1970s the average person was 150lbs you would be right in saying 750. Add another 100 and change for gear, tackle and coolers or whatever else they brought on for a week/weekend. Then you have your outboard, ground tackle, sails, rigging etc. I would have to load her then measure the draft and see to be sure.

I got this calculation by figuring the beam, lwl and overall weight. 3200 +1500 puts her at 4700 which brings her to her max draft of 5.33

Since it would only be myself that leaves me a fair bit of play.

- Assuming I don't upgrade boats..

[captmikem]

Originally Posted by Tidjian

Thanks for taking the time to do that.

You're right I don't need a GPS at all I suppose. Having one on my VHF was more of a (at least I won't have to figure out star charts) kind of thought. Could just take that location and manually plot my course with charts or using CPN on my laptop. Unless I'm missing something?

--------

There seems to be two routes to go. I don't see much difference in price between the two initially.

1. It's m700 ssb (If I can find one) or m802 ($2k+) and a pactor modem ($1200+). Can get email, weather alerts, plus further reach than vhf obviously for sos.

2. Iridium GO ($700-900) with either a monthly plan ($70-150) plus the pair option ($120) and then use my laptop to get weather alerts. Could also text email I'm sure. Free incoming calls and text messages if you pair to your phone. Plus can always call home or if need be call for help.

You misunderstood, I said you do not need a GPS in your VHF.

GPS's are cheap and easy to find, and extremely valuable to have on board.

In the past 6 years I have bought two M700's for less than $400, the last one included a tuner. And the last Pactor modem I bought off ebay was $250.

M

[Don C L]

A Catalina 25... well, still not there yet... I still say check atomvoyages good old boats list.
But if you are in Vancouver, the tougher part of the trip is going to be sailing down the coast, especially in March... running to Hawaii will be the easy(er) part.

[Fore and Aft]

I think it depends how big your balls are and if you are scared to die?
This aussie guy in the link below sailed a Hood 23 trailer sailer from Australia to the USA and then sank halfway to the UK. It is just mental what some people can achieve when they do not listen to anyone. I bet he must have had heaps of knockers before he took off.
Riverearth.com - Bernie Harberts Travelogue: Lost Sea Expedition

[alansmith]

You know, Sir, it wouldn't be a bad idea to just use the small boat for a season or two and work on seamanship, navigation, and living aboard a small vessel. Once you get those kinks worked out then you will have a much better idea what you need and how to get it.

With that idea a hand held VHF and a GPS....some charts ...it's all good. God Bless and keep us posted. There are so many ways to skin a cat....You know, vinyl ester, epoxy resins, x directional mat, chopped strand...you'll be fine.

I think it was Woods who built a small trimaran in Northern California. Had no navigation instruments other than a hand held compass and charts. Left the harbor....said he made a left hand turn past the Golden Gate bridge and sailed all the way down to Cabo San Lucas. Had no idea what he was doing. Learned along the way.

Crossing oceans is a lot more serious. For sure. You are on the right track for checking with the experienced sailors. Build experience with your little Grampian. Then you will know exactly what to do for your next leg of adventure.

[InTheDish]

Did I miss the part about steering the boat in case you need a nap or two over the month plus that you will be sailing non-stop?

I agree that a hand held GPS and some charts are more important than the souped up nav systems.

A top notch radar reflector is a good investment.

On boat choice, get one that will stand up to hitting a submerged container without having through hull damage.

Plan on rolling over and make sure that everything on board that could injure you is well secured.

A 150 Genoa and a whisker pole along with a preventer for your main will help immensely in heading to the SP.

Rick

[Gung Ho]

How about building your own wind vane selfstreering gear. There are several good books about with plans, list of materials etc. Electric auto pilots tend to fail but have one for emergencies. I cannot think of anything worse than tiller tyranny across the Pacific!
You may not want to take too much notice of this as I am on dry land with pneumonia and high on antibiotics which in fact are beginning to restore some normality. I hope you will have some on board.

[Gung Ho]

Sorry, forgot to mention the books particularly about MingMing I and MingMing II. "MingMing and the Art of Minimal Ocean sailing" by Roger D. Taylor tells you what to do to the boat, what rig to carry i.e. chinese junk rig, what food, and what instruments. Nothing expensive about Rogers Taylor's philosophy or his equipment. There are also some videos on you tube. Excellent stuff. I would find his vegetarianism very difficult to follow but Blondie Hasler took Guinness with him singlehanded across the Atlantic. We each have our own tipple. Good luck.

[GordMay]

It seems as though the only performance factor, with which you are currently expert, is (very important) price.

There are a number of other parameters** that can be used to compare different boats’ performance/capabilities.

You can use Carl’s Sail Calculator* to look up sailboat dimensions in a large database of boats or enter your own boat's dimensions and compare it to the others. In addition, for any boat you can calculate a set of values that will help you measure how it will perform.

* Carl's Sail Calculator ➥ Sail Calculator Pro v3.54 - 3200+ boats

** Some values that should be of interest to you:

Displacement to LWL: A medium value would be 200. 300 would be high (Heavy Cruising Boat) and 100 would be low (Ultra Light Displacement-ULDB). Boats with low numbers are probably uncomfortable and difficult to sail.

Sail Area to Displacement: The sail area is the total of the main sail and the area of the front triangle. I cannot be sure that this datum was entered correctly for each listed boat. A racing boat typically has large sail area and low displacement. A number less than 13 probably indicates that the boat is a motorsailer. High performance boats would be around 18 or higher.

Pounds per Inch Immersion: The weight required to sink the yacht one inch. If the boat is in fresh water multiply the result by 0.975. If you know the beam at the waterline (BWL) multiply the result by BWL/Beam.

Motion Comfort: Range will be from 5 to 60+ with a Whitby 42 at the mid 30's. The higher the number the more comfort in a sea. This figure of merit was developed by the Yacht designer Ted Brewer and is meant to compare the motion comfort of boats of similar size and types.

Capsize Ratio: A value less than 2 is considered to be relatively good; the boat should be relatively safe in bad conditions. The higher the number above 2 the more vulnerable the boat. This is just a rough figure of merit and controversial as to its use.

See also, Ted Brewer’s Primer on Yacht Design (more about the numbers):
➥ http://www.tedbrewer.com/yachtdesign.html

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

There are two questions here, one is the intellectual exercise of getting the boat ready, the other one is if it is reasonable or if you should ever do it.

My view is that you need a boat with standing headroom which puts you in the 30'+ category.

Well, this statement isn't necessarily true.

A Bristol 27 has 5"10" headroom (advertised) and when barefooted I can get almost to the mast beam/bulkhead without stooping. I'm just under 6' now. (at 60 plus)

A Bristol 27 is heavily built and considered by many to be a Bluewater Boat. Also, see attached pictures. For your price range, you may want to start looking at older full keel boats. They are usually inexpensive but are very strong, well built, and can handle a blow up to a certain point and you can trailer them. (and boats like them) Another thing about full keel boats is that they usually will heave too quite well which can allow you to get some rest offshore when totally exhausted even in bad weather as a singlehander

https://www.google.com/search?q=bris...=1512822679176

I paid $2,000 for mine and they are available anywhere from $2,000 to $6,000 and up. (But) Keep in mind that I did replace the mainsail and after the old diesel failed bought a new 4 stroke 5hp extra long shaft outboard. Also I completed a bottom job. For me that was around $3,500 or so give or take but you may be able to do that for say $1,500 purchasing used and buying cheaper bottom paint. (Also, if I was going to cross an ocean I'd probably go ahead and replace the rigging and at the very least remove and inspect the chainplates)

Here's a list of boats in the size range of 20' to 32' and most of these are not expensive. Also, most of the boats listed are ocean crossers

There's also lots of good voyaging advice on the site.

The author has circumnavigated twice on a Pearson Triton 28 either with a small outboard or not motor at all

Atom Voyages - Good Old Boats List