EU vs US electric

[StuM]

Originally Posted by jstevens

"... couldn't you make your own pigtail adapter and only hook up one hot leg (120v) to supply your boat with 120v? "
The power at most dock receptacles is single phase 240VAC. The only way to do what you ask is to open the dock power pedestal and re-wire it, something the marina is unlikely to allow.

John

Even rewiring the pedestal won't work. You just can't get 120V out of a single phase 240V supply just by swapping wires around.

[weavis]

Complete list: Plug, socket & voltage by country - World Standards

You will note that no European country uses 240 volts any more..

[sailing_gal]

I crossed the Pond last summer in my Island Packet 420. I have made my boat so that I can use either EU or US electric appliances. I installed a transformer in my lazarette, with a cord attached that plugs into the shore power here. My US shore power cord is also plugged into the transformer for US electric needs on the boat. I also wired into the connections an EU extension cord to the transformer so that I have a multiple EU outlet at my chart table. That, plus an additional EU extension cord, allows me to buy EU appliances to use while here. Everything works quite well, I am both EU and US electric enabled.

I recommend this over putting a transformer on the dock, which I see many people doing, simply because it cannot be damaged or stolen tucked away in my lazarette.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Dave22q

thanks for the clarification. Assuming I run everything through DC using an inverter. Would an 800 watt inverter be too much for my pro mariner 1240 with 375 AH battery bank. Exactly what changes do I need on the shore power inlet end?

You have to check the output of your battery charger. Should be more than the input of the inverter. Then your batteries are irrelevant.


Shore power inlet is a no-brainer. Just take off the plug from your shore power cable and install an EU 16 amp blue plug. Take you five minutes.


I think the best way for you to do this is to buy a Victron isolation transformer, and configure it to step all shore power coming into the boat to 110v.

THEN, install an inverter with separate outlets to run anything which needs 60 hz. Or maybe there isn't anything. Maybe only the microwave?

If you will need some 230v power on board for electric heat etc., then it may be worth setting up a separate circuit for that, with 230v outlets. Then you could just buy a European microwave and use it on that. Then you might not need the inverter at all.


My boat has a ton of electrical equipment on it. However, if I were going to sail in U.S. waters, the only gear which wouldn't work on 60 cycles is my washer/dryer. I'm pretty sure my microwave WILL work on 60 cycles. It would be easy enough to just run the washer/dryer off the inverter or off the generator.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by StuM

US 220/240 Volt supply uses a different method to Europe.

US uses two different phased 110V legs (plus neutral and earth)

Europe uses a single phase 240V leg, (plus neutral and earth)

Turning this question around (now that all the real gurus are reading). I'll be making landfall in the US in a couple of weeks and will have the same issues - but in reverse. We have a new Sterling Charger. We are almost exclusively 12 volt except our hot water heater - that draws 1400 watts. We have a Sterling 1800 watt inverter. Normally the only things we plug into the inverter are our coomputers, phones etc for charging.

What do I need to do to be able to plug into shore power in the US? - I have enough solar to keep our batteries charged on all but the most cloudy days.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by jstevens

Here is link to the article Jack Tyler wrote on this subject ...

Indeed! ➥ European Power Onboard
See also, his other articles under Cruising Europe, to the left of page.

























!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Turning this question around (now that all the real gurus are reading). I'll be making landfall in the US in a couple of weeks and will have the same issues - but in reverse. We have a new Sterling Charger. We are almost exclusively 12 volt except our hot water heater - that draws 1400 watts. We have a Sterling 1800 watt inverter. Normally the only things we plug into the inverter are our coomputers, phones etc for charging.

What do I need to do to be able to plug into shore power in the US? - I have enough solar to keep our batteries charged on all but the most cloudy days.

It's more or less analogous, Carsten, to the OP's situation.

First thing you need to know is whether your battery charger will take 110/60 power. If it does, then just get a U.S. shore power plug and install it on your shore power cable. Note that 16 amps at 110v is half the watts of 16 amps at 220v. U.S. shore power is usually 30 amps, and if you want all 30 amps, then you will have to change out the whole shore power system -- doubt if that's worth it.

Your water heater will work on 110 volts -- it will be half the wattage though.

Your phones and computers should work fine on 110 volts.

SO LONG AS YOU DON'T CHANGE BREAKERS, your AC system should be OK on 110 volts. But keep in mind that everything will have half the power (wattage).

Anything which needs 230v or 50 cycles could be run off your inverter, but then you will either need a separate outlet or outlets from the inverter, or you will have to switch over the whole AC system from shore power to inverter power -- depends on how your inverter and panels are wired.


Alternatively, you could install a Victron isolation transformer (or similar) and step up all the voltage going into your boat to 230v. Then everything on board will give full power, and everything will work other than anything which requires 50 cycles. In this case, however, your 16 amp shore power will probably not be enough, so you'll have to change out the whole shore power system to 30 amps.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

It's more or less analogous, Carsten, to the OP's situation.

First thing you need to know is whether your battery charger will take 110/60 power. If it does, then just get a U.S. shore power plug and install it on your shore power cable. Note that 16 amps at 110v is half the watts of 16 amps at 220v. U.S. shore power is usually 30 amps, and if you want all 30 amps, then you will have to change out the whole shore power system -- doubt if that's worth it.

Your water heater will work on 110 volts -- it will be half the wattage though.

Your phones and computers should work fine on 110 volts.

SO LONG AS YOU DON'T CHANGE BREAKERS, your AC system should be OK on 110 volts. But keep in mind that everything will have half the power (wattage).

Anything which needs 230v or 50 cycles could be run off your inverter, but then you will either need a separate outlet or outlets from the inverter, or you will have to switch over the whole AC system from shore power to inverter power -- depends on how your inverter and panels are wired.


Alternatively, you could install a Victron isolation transformer (or similar) and step up all the voltage going into your boat to 230v. Then everything on board will give full power, and everything will work other than anything which requires 50 cycles. In this case, however, your 16 amp shore power will probably not be enough, so you'll have to change out the whole shore power system to 30 amps.

Thanks Dockhead,

Half wattage doesn't really matter to us - our needs are pretty basic as most everything is 12v..ONly the water heater and our ice cube maker have heavy draws - waterheater - 1400 watts, ice cube maker 90 watts so it will take longer to heat the water and longer to make ice - but I can just run them off the inverter and use the shore power for topping off the batteries.

Our needs really are modest compared to the OP.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Thanks Dockhead,

Half wattage doesn't really matter to us - our needs are pretty basic as most everything is 12v..ONly the water heater and our ice cube maker have heavy draws - waterheater - 1400 watts, ice cube maker 90 watts so it will take longer to heat the water and longer to make ice - but I can just run them off the inverter and use the shore power for topping off the batteries.

Our needs really are modest compared to the OP.

You'll need to run the ice cube maker off the inverter, I guess, but read the specifications. I guess it has a Peltier device in it and that it probably won't work on 110v, but you should check the manual.

Water heater will be 700 watts on 110v.

Phones and laptop might benefit from car chargers so you can run them directly from 12v.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

You'll need to run the ice cube maker off the inverter, I guess, but read the specifications. I guess it has a Peltier device in it and that it probably won't work on 110v, but you should check the manual.

Water heater will be 700 watts on 110v.

Phones and laptop might benefit from car chargers so you can run them directly from 12v.

If the water heater is 1400w on 230v, it'll be 350w on 110v.

edit to add context:
1400w / 230v = ~6a
230v / 6a = 38 ohms
110v / 38 ohms = ~3a
110v * 3a = ~ 330w

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by weavis

Complete list: Plug, socket & voltage by country - World Standards

You will note that no European country uses 240 volts any more..

Nominally mains supply in Europe is 230V +- 10%. Both 220 and 240V fall in this range, and as a result a lot of places in the UK still have 240V, and a lot on the continent 230V, and this will continue to be the case until all local neighborhood transformers have been replaced...

[Dave22q]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Turning this question around (now that all the real gurus are reading). I'll be making landfall in the US in a couple of weeks and will have the same issues - but in reverse. We have a new Sterling Charger. We are almost exclusively 12 volt except our hot water heater - that draws 1400 watts. We have a Sterling 1800 watt inverter. Normally the only things we plug into the inverter are our coomputers, phones etc for charging.

What do I need to do to be able to plug into shore power in the US? - I have enough solar to keep our batteries charged on all but the most cloudy days.

You can hang an EU socket on a US 30 amp shore power cable but you then need to deal with 30 amps when your boat was wired for about half of that. I think it would be easier to use a US shore power cord, install a US style power socket on your boat and wire it to a 3500 watt step up transformer with appropriate wire sizes and fusing. Wire the output to take the stepped up current (15 A at 220 V) to your EU power receptacle. Just be aware that the frequencies differ and check that your charger and water heater can handle the difference (I think they should but check). Many of your EU appliances will work OK on your AC sockets despite the frequency difference. If your charger cannot handle the different frequency you will need to install a US style charger and the wiring gets a lot more complicated. In that case I would run the US power to the charger and forget the step up. That will give you your 12v systems and no hot water.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Adelie

A 1700w that also changes frequency is in the range of $150-200.

Interesting. Could you provide me with a link? I thought a converter that changed the frequency would be more expensive.

(The devices the railways use to change frequencies are not trivial for example...)

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Dave22q

You can hang an EU socket on a US 30 amp shore power cable but you then need to deal with 30 amps when your boat was wired for about half of that. I think it would be easier to use a US shore power cord, install a US style power socket on your boat and wire it to a 3500 watt step up transformer with appropriate wire sizes and fusing. Wire the output to take the stepped up current (15 A at 220 V) to your EU power receptacle. Just be aware that the frequencies differ and check that your charger and water heater can handle the difference (I think they should but check). Many of your EU appliances will work OK on your AC sockets despite the frequency difference. If your charger cannot handle the different frequency you will need to install a US style charger and the wiring gets a lot more complicated. In that case I would run the US power to the charger and forget the step up. That will give you your 12v systems and no hot water.

Care to expand on this? Not sure why my boat would be wired for 15 amps? And if I plug into a 110 outlet, when this goes through my charger won't it be halved or more than halved to less than 15 amps

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

It's more or less analogous, Carsten, to the OP's situation.

First thing you need to know is whether your battery charger will take 110/60 power. If it does, then just get a U.S. shore power plug and install it on your shore power cable. Note that 16 amps at 110v is half the watts of 16 amps at 220v. U.S. shore power is usually 30 amps, and if you want all 30 amps, then you will have to change out the whole shore power system -- doubt if that's worth it.

Your water heater will work on 110 volts -- it will be half the wattage though.

Your phones and computers should work fine on 110 volts.

SO LONG AS YOU DON'T CHANGE BREAKERS, your AC system should be OK on 110 volts. But keep in mind that everything will have half the power (wattage).

Anything which needs 230v or 50 cycles could be run off your inverter, but then you will either need a separate outlet or outlets from the inverter, or you will have to switch over the whole AC system from shore power to inverter power -- depends on how your inverter and panels are wired.


Alternatively, you could install a Victron isolation transformer (or similar) and step up all the voltage going into your boat to 230v. Then everything on board will give full power, and everything will work other than anything which requires 50 cycles. In this case, however, your 16 amp shore power will probably not be enough, so you'll have to change out the whole shore power system to 30 amps.

Dockhead, my system is wired with a shunt around the inverter when I take shore power. This is because otherwise, I am limitied to only being able to "pull" 1800 watts if the shore power goes through the inverter (as most do).

NOrmally when I have european shore power, I simply turn off the inverter and the shore power shunts around it - so then all my outlets are running directly on the shore power.

May main concern is the hot water heater adn rujning that on US power. The ice cube maker I can simply run from the inverter - it actually doesn't use much and for the rest - well we don't use our phones anymore, and charging up our PCs only takes a few minutes.

I do have to charge our cameras - but they only take a few minutes

carsten