"Fixed Position Lost" Raymarine E120W

[Gypsy23]

Originally Posted by jacktheflyer

I've been having this problem since the last firmware upgrade. I had chronic failures on the e125 just after leaving harbour on a night passage. I also have a C80 in circuit and turned this on and it did it as well. Soon stopped doing it thank goodness but started doing it again the next day soon after starting a trip but again settled down.

I've no leads on this one. Batteries were full, no interference that i know of but seas were rough.

Scrubby

Just what device had the firmware upgrade? GPS? What model? MFD? Which one?

[Seawindow]

Originally Posted by Gypsy23

Just what device had the firmware upgrade? GPS? What model? MFD? Which one?

For me I upgraded the E120W. No real performance improvement or features - except waypoint icons are bigger on the selection menu!

[Gypsy23]

Hi Seawindow. What is the model of your GPS and how is it connected? STalk, NMEA0183 or STng?

I have an E120W (software v2.65) and an RL80CRC playing together very nicely with an RS125 connected by Seatalk and used for cruising over the last 3yrs. On my bench at home I regularly connect an RS120 GPS via Seatalk and through a Stalk to Seatalkng converter to an E120W and a C120W. They all behave very well together.

From my experience these are mature products so any problems are faults in one or more of the devices or the network, not software issues.

Do you have access to another GPS or another MFD/chartplotter to substitute in your system to help isolate the problems?

I am happy to help once I know more about your system components and network.

[Seawindow]

Hi Gypsy 23, thanks. My system is E120W and Raystar 125, approx 7 years old. All connected via Seatalk. Also AIS, wind, DSM300. Also v2.65 software.

This afternoon, randomly I powered up the electronics and I had a fix again for 10 minutes or so then that red alert of position fix lost. Infuriating. I don't want to spend $400 on a new gps if that isn't the issue. Will have Navionics on the iPad close by in the meantime!

[Hobie_ind]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Forget your battery monitor. Measure the voltage at the batteries

I was having similar problems with my C80 and my E70 autopilot compass. A helpful Raymarine tech in Australia helped me track the likely culprit down to the voltage on the SeaTalk bus. Even though my voltage into the C80 was 13.4v (voltage converter from the 24v house bank), the SeaTalk voltage was just under 11v as measured by the E70 head and shown in it's System menus.

I cleaned up the connections out of the back of the C80 and clearly had a poor connection there as the voltage was back in range after. So testing at the batteries or even the supply to the Chartplotter may not tell you everything.

Good luck. Sometimes electronics can make you pine for the days of paper charts.......

[Gypsy23]

Originally Posted by Hobie_ind

I was having similar problems with my C80 and my E70 autopilot compass. A helpful Raymarine tech in Australia helped me track the likely culprit down to the voltage on the SeaTalk bus. Even though my voltage into the C80 was 13.4v (voltage converter from the 24v house bank), the SeaTalk voltage was just under 11v as measured by the E70 head and shown in it's System menus.

I cleaned up the connections out of the back of the C80 and clearly had a poor connection there as the voltage was back in range after. So testing at the batteries or even the supply to the Chartplotter may not tell you everything.

Good luck. Sometimes electronics can make you pine for the days of paper charts.......

Hobie_Ind makes a very good point here. There must be a Seatalk junction box or connector strip somewhere. Try to get to that point and measure the voltage. Measure it on a few different times as it is unlikely that you will be on the spot when the fix fails, but if you are, then so much the better. I don't know how Seawind power the Seatalk bus, but it is best powered by a feed from the power panel/battery rather than an instrument or MFD.

If the voltage is good, the next thing I would be doing is to to try to isolate the problem. Do you know anyone else with an E120W (or C120W they have the same wiring/cable) where you could take yours to plug in and try for a couple of hours?

Alternatively, I would move then to isolating it within your system. Disconnect the GPS from the Seatalk bus and take the E120W off the Seatalk bus so you can make a direct connection between the GPS and the E120W to eliminate network interference/loading possibilities. You will need to power the GPS separately as the E120W doesn't supply power to Seatalk and it requires 12V on the white/red wire to recognise that Seatalk is present and should be used.

If you still get dropouts then it is down to a choice of the RS125 or the E120W! At that time I'd be looking around for a fellow cruiser to test your E120W on their system. It would be easier than trying to uncable/dismount your GPS system to try elsewhere.

[Gypsy23]

Further to my suggestion above about isolating the GPS and E120W, if you still get fix dropouts when they are working in the isolated mode, there is a diagnostic page on the E120W where you can look at the Seatalk data buffer for incoming data. It takes some seconds of lost/bad data before the E120W alarms but you might be lucky enough to see data dropout/gaps. This is not a foolproof method because the GPS may be sending data but it may be bad data which the E120W can't decipher. Never-the-less it is a useful thing to observe if you are focussing on tracking down the problem - otherwise, the swap/exchange route is really the best way to narrow down the culprit.

[watevaworx]

Hi , I had the same problem some time ago and found I had added a bait table and rod holders .As the antenna is factory mounted on the aft deck the table and holders were shielding the satellite signals . I move the rod holders and bait table and the problem disappeared

[Zs2mat]

Bear in mind there are hazards accociated with soldering directly onto battery casings. A colleague of mine had a similar battery explode in his face while soldering onto it. Mayhaps he over heated it.

[Gypsy23]

Originally Posted by Gypsy23

Hobie_Ind makes a very good point here. There must be a Seatalk junction box or connector strip somewhere. Try to get to that point and measure the voltage. Measure it on a few different times as it is unlikely that you will be on the spot when the fix fails, but if you are, then so much the better. I don't know how Seawind power the Seatalk bus, but it is best powered by a feed from the power panel/battery rather than an instrument or MFD.

If the voltage is good, the next thing I would be doing is to to try to isolate the problem. Do you know anyone else with an E120W (or C120W they have the same wiring/cable) where you could take yours to plug in and try for a couple of hours?

Alternatively, I would move then to isolating it within your system. Disconnect the GPS from the Seatalk bus and take the E120W off the Seatalk bus so you can make a direct connection between the GPS and the E120W to eliminate network interference/loading possibilities. You will need to power the GPS separately as the E120W doesn't supply power to Seatalk and it requires 12V on the white/red wire to recognise that Seatalk is present and should be used.

If you still get dropouts then it is down to a choice of the RS125 or the E120W! At that time I'd be looking around for a fellow cruiser to test your E120W on their system. It would be easier than trying to uncable/dismount your GPS system to try elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Zs2mat

Bear in mind there are hazards accociated with soldering directly onto battery casings. A colleague of mine had a similar battery explode in his face while soldering onto it. Mayhaps he over heated it.

Yes, that is true. That is why there are versions available with solder tags. Some for PCB mounting, others for general purpose freestanding installation. Then there is the option of installing a 'carrier/socket'. This add a small amount to the expense but I have always been a bit doubtful of having a socket in a device which is usually permanently outdoors in a salty environment. However, apparently Raymarine have used the socket in later models, I don't know if it has caused issues or not.

[Gypsy23]

Seawindow, I have sent you a Private Message.

[Darksyde]

I had the same problem

The cable to the GPS was broken inside.

This happens often with Raymarine

Try it with a new cable.

Took me a long time to find this out

M

[pyroray]

All good suggestions, I'd go with the voltage at the battery.

[Gypsy23]

Originally Posted by Gypsy23

Further to my suggestion above about isolating the GPS and E120W, if you still get fix dropouts when they are working in the isolated mode, there is a diagnostic page on the E120W where you can look at the Seatalk data buffer for incoming data. It takes some seconds of lost/bad data before the E120W alarms but you might be lucky enough to see data dropout/gaps. This is not a foolproof method because the GPS may be sending data but it may be bad data which the E120W can't decipher. Never-the-less it is a useful thing to observe if you are focussing on tracking down the problem - otherwise, the swap/exchange route is really the best way to narrow down the culprit.

Any results on your faultfinding?

I have worked on a friend's Seawind 1250 so I know the problems of access to the wiring.

Further to above, you can record data to a data CF card (DON'T use the Navionics card - damage could occur) from that menu. Record Tx & Rx data. There is a cyclical nature to all the Seatalk signals, look for a 'hole' in the GPS signals. If there is, it points to the GPS (or its wiring or power), if not it points to the E120W.

Another idea. Is your AIS a transceiver or receive only. If a transceiver, many models allow configuration to output their dedicated GPS data multiplexed with the AIS data. It may need configuring with a PC using ProAIS2 or similar. Check your incoming AIS data, it may already contain GPS data from the AIS. When you get the GPS data coming in with the AIS, go to System Setup/System Integration and change the Preferred GPS Source to NMEA. Now if you have Lost Fix you can be pretty certain it is the E120W but certainly not the RS125 main GPS.

[Seawindow]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. The GPS is still AWOL and misbehaving. However I have been following through your ideas. The GPS cable has 11.6V to it. Seatalk connections all OK as far as I can see. We have an alternative to get us through call Bad Elf Pro+. It is a small GPS (not reliant on telco towers for a fix) that beams GPS data via Bluetooth to iPad/iPhone Navionics. I am getting a bit out of my depth....