Garmin just purchased ActiveCaptain

[seandepagnier]

I personally emailed the creator of active captain to offer integrating it with opencpn.

I was disgusted and completely ignored the possibility once jeff informed me that all the data entered into the database was his "personal property" He insisted that it could not be duplicated or hosted elsewhere. This made it clear that it was an obvious trap, and this was more than 3 years ago.

[Franziska]

@boat_alexandra

Like!

:-)

[Opie91]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

I personally emailed the creator of active captain to offer integrating it with opencpn.

I was disgusted and completely ignored the possibility once jeff informed me that all the data entered into the database was his "personal property" He insisted that it could not be duplicated or hosted elsewhere. This made it clear that it was an obvious trap, and this was more than 3 years ago.

Exactly! This was the first major RED FLAG! I think Jeff had an issue with the way opencpn worked and refused to allow an open source plug in to be created.

ActiveCaptain as we knew it is gone.

[boatman61]

One reason I do not offer detailed nav info to the Wiki project or other so called aids to the everyday sailor..
Happy to offer broad brush advice in individual threads on here tho'.. but for the rest.. do your own time and stop freeloading..

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

I personally emailed the creator of active captain to offer integrating it with opencpn.

I was disgusted and completely ignored the possibility once jeff informed me that all the data entered into the database was his "personal property" He insisted that it could not be duplicated or hosted elsewhere. This made it clear that it was an obvious trap, and this was more than 3 years ago.

Not knowing the full context of your communication with him, your judgment might be one-sided. To be fair to Jeff, it was his proprietary creation and he might have been turned off by any requirement to open up his code or data structure to the GNU license.

He did offer an API to use the data, without fee, and he has every right to impose his own conditions on that. I hope he made a lot of money selling out to Garmin. He earned it. Unfortunately it would be naive to assume Garmin will share the data so openly, and I'm not happy about that.

"Obvious trap"? I don't think that was the intention. I think he just wanted to be able to cash in for his work. Can't blame the man for that. Worse than growing old is growing old and poor.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Opie91

ActiveCaptain as we knew it is gone.

I really should stop defending Garmin at this moment, because this is a PR disaster of their own making.

Nonetheless, as I've mentioned elsewhere, the AC website and apps all still work (for free). And at this point, only one 3rd-party chart application (Polar Navy) is reporting that they're losing access to the AC data.

The Polar Navy press release mentions something about GPDR, which is a new EU standard for how sites must maintain and handle user data. The exact wording is:

We received the following notice from Garmin wrt. ActiveCaptain data availability:

"As permitted by our existing agreement, the current product will be discontinued on May 23, 2018 and will no longer be available. Due to General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) requirements we are unable to keep this product. This letter is providing you notice of termination of that product and our existing agreement."

Based on this notice, ActiveCaptain data will no longer be available for download after May 23, 2018.
Your existing downloaded data will continue to be available in the PolarView.

This suggests that maybe something about the crowdsourced data, or the way Garmin has been providing it, falls foul of the new GPDR regulations...?

So many questions... still, AC is not (yet) gone; AC data is still freely available at the moment. The sky is not falling, there's just been a cloud or two.

[leftbrainstuff]

The GDPR legislation, which comes into effect on 28 May 2018 is going to cause many issues like this.

The ability to own one's data that is spread across the internet and to control where one's data resides is a good idea. However compliance and enforcement are impractical for global crowdsourced data.

I suspect we'll see the 'crowd' adapt quickly. But some services and enterprises will not. History in tech indicates that something new will appear and the old incumbent service will dissapear.

I know how I would architect something like ActiveCaptain to work with these emerging data residency constraints. It would be easier to create anew than rebuild. I would also open source using an OSS license that can't be undone by anyone, any organization or nation state. I would also make the non personal data available to all. Decoupling it from the personal data. It's the data about places we want and not the individual users.

Of course those orgs that want to monetize the users now need to deal with data residency legislation. This will probably kill off many of the add driven business models. Personally I can't wait and I'm happy to pay for good apps and services but lets keep the data truly open.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I really should stop defending Garmin at this moment, because this is a PR disaster of their own making.

Nonetheless, as I've mentioned elsewhere, the AC website and apps all still work (for free). And at this point, only one 3rd-party chart application (Polar Navy) is reporting that they're losing access to the AC data.

The Polar Navy press release mentions something about GPDR, which is a new EU standard for how sites must maintain and handle user data. The exact wording is:
This suggests that maybe something about the crowdsourced data, or the way Garmin has been providing it, falls foul of the new GPDR regulations...?

So many questions... still, AC is not (yet) gone; AC data is still freely available at the moment. The sky is not falling, there's just been a cloud or two.

Let's temper our reaction. Too much "the sky is falling." As you said, the data is freely available and the only thing we know at this time is the AC interface with Polar Navy is going to end. Does anyone here use Polar Navy? We sure don't.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by BandB

Let's temper our reaction. Too much "the sky is falling." As you said, the data is freely available and the only thing we know at this time is the AC interface with Polar Navy is going to end. Does anyone here use Polar Navy? We sure don't.

The sky isn't falling.

I bought PolarView from Polar Navy specifically for the AC integration. Same with a few other apps.

I've also been around long enough to know that you never really "buy" hardware or software. You're just given the right to use it until it becomes obsolete. Which usually isn't long nowadays.

We move on. No big deal.

But personally, I plan to move on without Active Captain. For one thing, I suspect fewer people will be as willing to donate their time to Garmin as they were to what was perceived as a more "open" system. If I'm right, AC data would quickly become stale.

I also feel a bit disappointed after seeing all my enthusiastic support of, and untold hours of reviews in, Active Captain being sold and used this way, but that's only one person, so it's sort of irrelevant unless I'm in the majority. Which, by the way, I'm generally not.

[Mike OReilly]

I’ve mentioned in other related threads, an alternative to AC is WaterWay Guide:

https://www.waterwayguide.com

It covers the north eastern parts of the USA, including both sides of the Great Lakes, as well as the Bahamas/Caribbean/Cuba.

It is both a print and online guide. And it uses both crowd-source AND paid on-the-water people to update and validate the information. You don’t have to sign up to use it. The online version is available, for free, to anyone.

Disclosure: I am one of the paid Cruising Editors.

[hoolie]

I have to say I'm a bit puzzled by the Garmin business model here. Of course buying a data-base provider might provide product added-value, but as a crowd-funded operation it will surely grind to a halt. Where can it go next?

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by hoolie

I have to say I'm a bit puzzled by the Garmin business model here. Of course buying a data-base provider might provide product added-value, but as a crowd-funded operation it will surely grind to a halt. Where can it go next?

I think Jeff answered that in some of his regular e-mails. I remember future plans to integrate AC into hardware like a multi-function display, which itself would be connected to the internet (either in port or via satellite or cell networks) allowing real-time or near-real-time retrieval and updates of information.

I think some MFD manufacturers are already going down this path, with real-time depth soundings being uploaded to create user-generated charting. Using the AC infrastructure for this sort of thing was probably part of Jeff's design.

It's a great idea. My problem is the number of different, incompatible systems currently in the works. I don't want to buy into the BetaMax of crowd-sourced charting and cruising guides.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

The sky isn't falling.

I bought PolarView from Polar Navy specifically for the AC integration. Same with a few other apps.

I've also been around long enough to know that you never really "buy" hardware or software. You're just given the right to use it until it becomes obsolete. Which usually isn't long nowadays.

We move on. No big deal.

But personally, I plan to move on without Active Captain. For one thing, I suspect fewer people will be as willing to donate their time to Garmin as they were to what was perceived as a more "open" system. If I'm right, AC data would quickly become stale.

I also feel a bit disappointed after seeing all my enthusiastic support of, and untold hours of reviews in, Active Captain being sold and used this way, but that's only one person, so it's sort of irrelevant unless I'm in the majority. Which, by the way, I'm generally not.

At this point, Polar Navy is the only vendor terminated. There are other factors involved in that termination. Garmin has reiterated that they fully intend to keep AC open to all and not just Garmin customers. Garmin has had to write new code to comply with EU's GDPR and it will be implemented by 5/23. It does require rewrites of some of the interfaces and Polar Navy has indicated they do not intend to do the work required on their end.

Here is an article with more information.

https://www.panbo.com/archives/2018/...s_assured.html

[Opie91]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

So many questions... still, AC is not (yet) gone; AC data is still freely available at the moment. The sky is not falling, there's just been a cloud or two.

Garmin is already integrating AC into their products heavily and they are highly unlikely to share it with other manufactures new products.

Like I said in another post, you really cant blame Jeff or Garmin they are both just trying to make money. And they should.

But, AC has changed and will continue to. For good or bad we will see. My prediction for the community as a whole, it will be for the bad.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

I was disgusted and completely ignored the possibility once jeff informed me that all the data entered into the database was his "personal property" He insisted that it could not be duplicated or hosted elsewhere. This made it clear that it was an obvious trap, and this was more than 3 years ago.

There is history there. My understanding is that Dave and the OpenCPN team wanted to push through the open API and tell Jeff how to run his business on his side of the interface. The open source religion drove to a stonewall and the open source navigation community lost because principle overwhelmed realism.

Originally Posted by Opie91

Garmin is already integrating AC into their products heavily

Fact.

Originally Posted by Opie91

and they are highly unlikely to share it with other manufactures new products.

Opinion.