General Electronic Systems Advice

[alanfw]

I've been gradually working on getting things right on my boat. Currently I'm looking at the wind display that has never worked. I would like to get it going for convenience rather than necessity - easier to see wind at night and when sitting under the bimini. However, looking at wind sensors has led me down the mind-bendingly complex area of general boat electronic systems in general. Hence this post for information: What is worth doing????

My boat - a 1984 31 footer - has a fairly basic instrument system:

• VHF radio with GPS and DSC
• An old GPSMap230 that is almost useless because the onboard backup battery is dead and everything gets lost every time the unit is switched off.
• A Clipper Depth sounder that works - installed by previous owner.
• A VDO Logic Wind wind display - circa 1999. The wind sensor is broken and the display appears to be dead.
• A Simrad TP32 autohelm
• An Android tablet running Navionics Boating app for navigation

None of this is networked. There is also a paddlewheel speed sensor but I have no idea where it connects to.

I have plans to cruise the Queensland coast within a couple of years. I have no recent cruising experience other than what little I have done since buying this boat, so I don't know what is worth getting and what isn't.

Is it worth getting an AIS transponder? I've seen that I can get AIS units with WiFi which allow me to use it with Navionics on my tablet. They also can be gateway from NMEA instruments to the Tablet.

Wind displays? I've seen there are a few wireless sensors. Some of these are bluetooth which would allow me to include a wind display on the tablet. I've seen the B&G is bluetooth but there is no mention about being able to use it directly with the tablet (it comes with an NMEA interface unit that has "Bluetooth" written on it). From a budget perspective, the NASA Clipper Wireless Wind looks good - the sensor AND display come in significantly less than the cost of the B&G sensor alone! One advantage of a wireless sensor is the ability to remove it for safe keeping. I was thinking of mounting it above/behind the solar panels above the bimini. I know it's not TOTALLY clean air, but it should be good for sufficient info to avoid unintentional gybe or steering too high - especially at night. Although close hauled on a decent heel could cause significant disturbance from solar panels... anyone have experience here?

NMEA backbone??? Is it worth networking everything? The autohelm has an NMEA0183 input and SimNet input, so it CAN be connected to the network to take input from GPS and/or Wind for steer-to-wind and steer-to-waypoint functions.

Are there any other electronics worth looking at? Like Radar? It appears I could easily spend almost quarter of what I spent on the whole boat!!! I know a lot of it is not necessary, but if there are worthwhile benefits then it's at least worth looking at the cost/benefit analysis.

Sorry for this rambling post. My head has been spinning since trying to wrap it around boat electronics.

[stevead]

In the spirit of Christmas.....

You need to determine what is working, what is not working, whether the devices that are not working can be repaired and if they can be repaired whether it is economical and can add value to your other electronics.

Your ideal long term aim should be to have a network that integrates your VHF/DSC radio, speed, depth & wind transducers, includes a chart plotting device that can display all of the appropriate navigation information, provides wind and navigation information to your tiller pilot and allows you to add AIS and Radar as appropriate.

Let's go through the list.

• VHF radio with GPS and DSC
  
  I assume it's working, however you need to identify the brand and model. Ideally it should have an internal GPS or a GPS input so that if you need to issue a DSC Distress alert you don't have to manually input your position.
  
• An old GPSMap230 that is almost useless because the onboard backup battery is dead and everything gets lost every time the unit is switched off.
  
  From a perusal of the following link it should be an easy job to replace the battery. It does have a NMEA 183 connection that could be used to output position data to your VHF and output navigation information to your tiller pilot as NMEA 183 does allow for multiple listeners on the same cable, however the GPSMap 230 does not display AIS or wind data so its long term benefit to you is marginal. Nonetheless if you can replace the battery, keep it.
  
• A Clipper Depth sounder that works - installed by previous owner.
  
  As long you have a working depth sounder and display, that's great. If you later install another Chartplotter or Multi Function Display (MFD), I am unsure if you are able to integrate depth data, but not really that important as you still have a working display.
  
• A VDO Logic Wind wind display - circa 1999. The wind sensor is broken and the display appears to be dead.
  
  Needs replacing. Irrespective of whether you opt for a wired or wireless (Bluetooth) sensor, the question is whether to choose a NMEA 183 or NMEA 2000 connection. This is dependent on your selection of Chartplotter/MFD or instrument display. As the data for wind, depth & speed is well standardised, you are not really limited to any particular brand of wind sensor or instrument display
  
• A Simrad TP32 autohelm
  
  I assume it's working. As it supports both NMEA 183 or Simnet (Simrad's cable & connector version of NMEA 2000 prior to their adoption of standard Micro-C NMEA 2000 connectors), it can consume both navigation and wind data from either NMEA 183 or NMEA 2000 data sources to steer to a waypoint or apparent wind angle.
• An Android tablet running Navionics Boating app for navigation
  
  The Navionics boating app can consume AIS & Depth data from a NMEA 183 connection over WiFi. It does not transmit anything else so it cannot be used to provide navigation/waypoint information to your tiller pilot.
  
• Speed Sensor.
  
  You need to identify the brand and model, find out where it is connected to and whether it works.

One option to make the most use of your existing devices is to purchase a multiplexer with NMEA 183, NMEA 2000 and WiFi. For example ShipModul Miniplex 3 with four NMEA 183 connections, use one connection to the VHF DSC, the second to the GPSMap 230, the third to your tiller pilot and the fourth if required to a new NMEA 183 wind sensor, or install a NMEA 2000 backbone to connect the multiplexer, tiller pilot and a new NMEA 2000 wind sensor. The multiplexer can then use its WiFi connection to provide AIS data to your Navionics Boating app.

Ideally you want to install a NMEA 2000 backbone and ensure that any new devices you add supports NMEA 2000.

AIS and Radar are great enhancements. While you can mix-n-match different brands of AIS with your other displays, you need to have the same brand of MFD and Radar as they use proprietary protocols to interconnect the radar with the display.

Also an AIS transponder is quite easy to install whereas a radar requires a lot more work.

Ultimately it depends on your budget and timeline.

[Ballsnall]

Originally Posted by alanfw

I have plans to cruise the Queensland coast within a couple of years. I have no recent cruising experience other than what little I have done since buying this boat, so I don't know what is worth getting and what isn't.

Best advice, wait a year at least before doing any upgrades. Fix or replace the critical ones only like the depth display, that's a must have. Once you understand what you NEED then you can look for a package deal that covers it all.

Is it worth getting an AIS transponder? I've seen that I can get AIS units with WiFi which allow me to use it with Navionics on my tablet. They also can be gateway from NMEA instruments to the Tablet.

AIS is great but not something you need straight away unless you are going solo, then I'd maybe move it to the necessity list.

Are there any other electronics worth looking at? Like Radar? It appears I could easily spend almost quarter of what I spent on the whole boat!!! I know a lot of it is not necessary, but if there are worthwhile benefits then it's at least worth looking at the cost/benefit analysis.

To me radar is almost a necessity but again it depends a lot on how you use your boat and then there is the power consumption to factor as well.

As long as you have a compass, chart, GPS, depth sounder and autopilot your good to go. Don't forget to plug that paddle wheel through hull.

[alanfw]

Thanks Steve. That's quite a comprehensive response! This would be my ideal - if I were to hold Santa to ransom!!! ��

Really not sure whether the cost justifies the expense (and potential resale value). I'd love a MFD, but cost and finding a good location are issues (being a tiller steer, there is no helm station to place it within reach).

[alanfw]

[QUOTE=Ballsnall;3720872]Best advice, wait a year at least before doing any upgrades. /QUOTE]

Good advice!
I've had it 18 months now, doing general rig, hull and engine maintenance... and getting to know the boat. NOW I'm getting onto the less pressing items. 😁

[Pete7]

Alan, how about under the cockpit sprayhood. Yes we have a little Garmin 550 at the wheel and after 14 years its still going strong, but we have also installed a Raymarine Element under the sprayhood. Nice big numbers I can see from anywhere in the cockpit.

Since you have a tiller pilot, I suspect you will be using it and then sitting further forward. Alternatively one of those "golf handle" tiller extensions works well enabling you to sit out on the side, or in our case before we fitted the wheel hide under the sprayhood from the rain.

Pete

[Sailer_Med]

Originally Posted by alanfw

Thanks Steve. That's quite a comprehensive response! This would be my ideal - if I were to hold Santa to ransom!!! ��

Really not sure whether the cost justifies the expense (and potential resale value). I'd love a MFD, but cost and finding a good location are issues (being a tiller steer, there is no helm station to place it within reach).

Boat electronics are a hole in a hole into which you can throw as much money as you’d like

I wouldn’t view spending on electronics as increasing the value of the boat. It might increase it some at what; 25-50% of the value of the electronics? It is a terrible performer in financial terms. I believe what it does is makes the boat MORE EASILY sold if you have a working package that is comparable to other boats in the same class.

[alanfw]

Thanks Pete. I currently have my android tablet mounted in this area - but on a mount attached to the dodger forward bow - can't mount it to the deck due to winches and controls. But you've given me an idea that maybe I could replace the two displays mounted on the bulkhead next to the cabin hatch with a single multifunction display...

If only I had an endless supply of money!

[Pizzazz]

My approach would be to start with something solid but low cost, for example a Garmin 44 chart plotter (or the equivalent Raymarine Element). This will cost around $300 and will give you a modern chart plotter, a depth sounder/sonar (that you can mount in-hull), a nmea connection to either the radio for gps/dsc or the autopilot. This will be a good start. Then I would wait for a few months to see how you use the boat, where you place your instruments, how reliable your autopilot is.

Next, you will need to upgrade your wind sensor. You can get a nmea wind sensor or bluetooth one but they all are not as good as the proper wind sensors from Raymarine/Garmin/Simrad. You would want to feed this sensor in the autopilot, so before you invest money for the wind sensor and the associated display, you need to settle on the autopilot. And then there is the eventual upgrade to nmea2000. The cost will increase rapidly.

On my previous 31' sailboat, I started with the Garmin 44 with a Raymarine autopilot and was very happy for a while. Then my wind sensor broke and I embarked on this months long path of adding additional displays, old analog radars, nmea wind, networking with nmea0183 multiplexors... it took me a long time and considerable amount of money to build the whole system. I would have been better off starting from scratch with nmea2000 compliant modern equipment.

[stevead]

All good advice from the previous posts. You don't want to over capitalize your boat and just need to ensure you have the necessary electronics to permit safe navigation. Plus you have the ergonomics to consider for your cockpit layout.

My approach, if I was wanting to keep costs down and utilize as many of the existing working items would be the following:

• Replace battery on existing GPSMap230. As it seems to be working and you have the relevant charts, I think it is worth keeping for the short to medium term.
• Connect GPSMap230 NMEA 183 output to VHF/DSC radio & autopilot. Ensures that VHF/DSC radio has a position fix in the event you need to issue a DSC Distress Alert and allows the tiller pilot to steer to a waypoint
• Use the existing, working depth sounder as a stand alone device. I don't believe that the NASA Clipper Depth devices can be easily integrated with either NMEA 183 or NMEA 2000 networks.
  The next two items are optional
• Install a basic NMEA 2000 backbone (4 T-pieces, 2 Terminators, 1 Power cable, 1 drop cable with Simnet Converter to the existing tiller pilot.
• Wind Sensor with NMEA 2000 output and a generic NMEA 2000 display. Both connected to the NMEA 2000 backbone. Allows you to view the apparent wind angle and speed and enables the tiller pilot to steer to an apparent wind angle. As others have stated you may be able to find a discounted bundle (wind transducer & display and/or MFD) or you might find some items on ebay.

Over time then consider fixing/replacing the speed log, upgrading the chartplotter, adding an AIS transceiver etc.
Your tablet running the Navionics Boating App is a good adjunct, but to be able to incorporate depth & AIS you would need to have some sort of multiplexer & WiFi capabilities added to the network. Just beware that, as my partner rudely discovered, if you don't maintain the Navionics Boating App subscription it no longer displays AIS targets!

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by alanfw

What is worth doing????

- You already have depth, that is most important.
- You already have VHF, that is second.
- You already have autohelm, that is third.
- Fourth is radar. Radar scanner and chartplotter go together, look at that as the next plausible upgrade.
- Wind is a close fifth and would rank higher except that the sensors are short lived and expensive to replace.
- Paddlewheel, don't bother unless you're racing, they are a nuisance to calibrate and are easily fouled by marine life
- Networking benefits are marginal in modest boats and mainly have to do with being able to aggregate sensor data and display it in one place e.g. depth and wind on the chartplotter. It will not change your world.
- AIS is only important if you sail in really congested areas e.g. the English Channel


Radar does many things, helps you see boats, storms, inlets; measures distances. We have obsolete crap radar and it has picked up kayaks at dusk that we could barely see by eye once the radar found them.

[mgrouch]

You can do something DIY like here:

https://youtu.be/3zMjUs2X3qU

in the process you will learn more and make better decisions on buying commercial marine electronics.