Good/Best Tiller Autopilot

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Nice. My Simrad worked well until I blew it up, but it was a pain to recalibrate after a tack. It was too long to leave on one side all the time.

How did this one die? Did you open it? The simrad tiller pilots have faulty design where the magnets fall out and smash the circuit board. You should definitely keep it. I have two of these that failed and they work great just using the motor.

Originally Posted by thomm225

No racing.

I don't reef much though so maybe I'm putting a lot of pressure on the pilot to perform in all conditions. Still I would have thought it would be okay.

Windvane pilot would be better though I think

I used monitor wind vane for many years crossing oceans, and yes it works in all conditions, but it does not work better than an electric autopilot in most conditions.

It does work better than what you had, because the sensors and electronics in the cheap tiller pilots is not very good, and obsolete technology.

Now that I develop pypilot, I don't really use the windvane anymore. It is a nice backup but electric autopilot gives better performance. I used 4 amp hours sailing 109 miles using simrad tp22 driver. Efficient actuators use about half this.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Cruiser2B

Was going to recommend getting a windvane

Do you have one on your Westsail 32?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

How did this one die? Did you open it? The simrad tiller pilots have faulty design where the magnets fall out and smash the circuit board. You should definitely keep it. I have two of these that failed and they work great just using the motor.

I had to open it a couple times because the keys/buttons would get stuck when I would hold them down hard to recalibrate after a tack while trying to steer. You have to disconnect power while holding down the cal button etc and I couldn't reach the switch so I would do this at the plug. When I had it apart the gyro ribbon cable came unplugged but I got all that working again

I blew it up when I wired it wrong even though I believe I've made that mistake before and it didn't fail. I have it here in front of me now. I opened it hoping to find a fuse or a burnt component but it's all very small surface mount stuff

The motor is probably fine

[liquidice]

My AH1000 re-broke for the last time and I ended up replacing it with a black rubber trucker’s tie down bungee. The hooks go into the locker hasps and I wrap it twice around the tiller. I was planning on using this as a stop-gap until I repaired my auto tiller again. I took some out of town friends out for a cruise and realized that the bungee was giving much better service. With balanced sails and just a little slippage by the band around the tiller, we kept true to our heading for hours at a go. This on a day where we got to see a harbormate flying too much canvas get blown over in a gust and get his mast snapped off for his troubles. The bungee stretches a little and catches a little, and somehow it works.
Clearly electric tiller pilots have advanced capabilities that are unmatched by a rubber strap. However, if you like to singlehand or entertain, and “Otto” is on the fritz again, give the trucker tie-down a try. For me, it’s done so well I haven’t bothered to repair the autohelm and it’s been over 2 months.

[250224]

Originally Posted by thomm225

but in the meantime, can anyone recommend a better tiller autopilot?

Yes: buy a WindPilot :-)

This said, I also have a Raymarine ST2000 and it works quite fine since many years. For longer distances I use the WindPilot though.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by liquidice

My AH1000 re-broke for the last time and I ended up replacing it with a black rubber trucker’s tie down bungee. The hooks go into the locker hasps and I wrap it twice around the tiller. I was planning on using this as a stop-gap until I repaired my auto tiller again. I took some out of town friends out for a cruise and realized that the bungee was giving much better service. With balanced sails and just a little slippage by the band around the tiller, we kept true to our heading for hours at a go. This on a day where we got to see a harbormate flying too much canvas get blown over in a gust and get his mast snapped off for his troubles. The bungee stretches a little and catches a little, and somehow it works.
Clearly electric tiller pilots have advanced capabilities that are unmatched by a rubber strap. However, if you like to singlehand or entertain, and “Otto” is on the fritz again, give the trucker tie-down a try. For me, it’s done so well I haven’t bothered to repair the autohelm and it’s been over 2 months.

Thanks for the info. I definitely plan to experiment a bit more with non electrical systems in case I'm ever in a situation where I have to sail 100's of miles without an electrical tiller autopilot

The Raymarine ST 2000 was working great on Thursday and Friday but failed Saturday. This is Friday crossing the Bay. Shot of ST2000 at around 25 seconds. The weather went from sunny and 2 knot winds to this. I couldn't even sail against the tide two hours earlier then Fall arrived

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3I2zc0_7wY

[Cruiser2B]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Do you have one on your Westsail 32?

I do, a monitor. It needs a rebuild. I used it some last year. Couldn't get it to hold a course....found needle bearings had seen better days...haven't gotten around to repairing it. Just using TP32

[CGirvan]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

Now that I develop pypilot, I don't really use the windvane anymore. It is a nice backup but electric autopilot gives better performance. I used 4 amp hours sailing 109 miles using simrad tp22 driver. Efficient actuators use about half this.

Do you have an efficient actuator that you would recommend to go with Pypilot?

[barnakiel]

Browse Webb's blog, he used both Pelagic and Raymarine. He has some opinions based on some miles.


Cheers,
b.

[lockie]

I have owned and used both the ST2000+ and TP22 on my 3.3 ton 28 footer over quite a few years. I have performed repairs on both, using parts from failed units I bought cheap.

The Simrads have stall detection that switches off the motor at the end of stroke (this is done via the little magnets that a previous poster referred to, and I have seen a useful thread somewhere recommending gluing them in securely).

The Raymarines do not have this feature, and the most common failures relate to them continuing to grind away after reaching the end of travel. This shows up as stripped belts (both brands use cogged sprockets and belts, not gears), and/or a burnt-out motor. I have had both happen. It will also mean the unit uses a lot more power as the motor draws much more current when it is stalled.

This failure is especially likely to happen if your helm is heavy and/or ends up hard over for long periods. My boat has an unbalanced "barn-door" rudder. It was also very prone to weather helm due to baggy sails, but a new foresall has mostly eased that so the tiller-pilots (I still have both) have a much easier life. If your boat has a balanced or semi-balanced rudder, this will also make life easier for the unit. Now that my ST2000+ is out of warranty I have performed surgery on mine and added internal limit switches to prevent the stall problem, and it works very well.

Since the units have been on the market for decades with almost no design changes, Raymarine have recouped the development costs many times over. Their failure to address this appalling failure of design shows a low regard for their customers.

Both brands work well when working but the TP22 is much noisier. They both must have splash protection ( I use heavy clear plastic and gaffer tape) and preferably sun protection when it's very hot.

Cheers, Graeme

[ahun]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

Pelagic tiller pilots have a reputation of just working.

https://pelagicautopilot.com/

Why did I not know about this before? My Simrad tiller pilot failed within a year or so. The pcb couldn't handle the wet environment!?

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by CGirvan

Do you have an efficient actuator that you would recommend to go with Pypilot?

The most efficient actuators don't use lead screws. All the recent tiller pilots do, they are cheap. You can buy a suitable lead screw for about $12 on ebay for a 3d printer, and hook it to a cordless drill and already have something better than a st2000+ I'm looking at 3d printing the pieces needed to complete this along with pvc parts.

Better (and older) tiller pilots often have ball screws. These are about twice as efficient, but can be backdriven which adds stress with extreme weather helm. This is generally ok, and they tend to be about twice as efficient which is a big advantage. You can get suitable ball screws for cnc machine for $20-$30.

windshield wiper motors use a high efficiency worm gear, which ends up being about as efficient as a tiller pilot with ball screw because it is a winch drive, and also eliminates the sliding seal which wastes a huge amount of power.

The most efficient driver possible would be a sensored brushless motor with FOC controller using planetary gears and probably a winch drive although ball screw could be more convenient it still suffers from inefficient sliding seal. Now maybe it's possible to design it so that a seal is not needed here and would be a huge gain.

Originally Posted by lockie

The Raymarines do not have this feature, and the most common failures relate to them continuing to grind away after reaching the end of travel. This shows up as stripped belts (both brands use cogged sprockets and belts, not gears), and/or a burnt-out motor. I have had both happen. It will also mean the unit uses a lot more power as the motor draws much more current when it is stalled.

My controllers have end of travel protection from stall current, as well as optional end of travel switches, and optional rudder feedback.

2000+ is out of warranty I have performed surgery on mine and added internal limit switches to prevent the stall problem, and it works very well.

Internal limit switches are the way to go for tiller pilot, but stall detection from current feedback also works well. I have not had any failures using this.

Originally Posted by ahun

Why did I not know about this before? My Simrad tiller pilot failed within a year or so. The pcb couldn't handle the wet environment!?

This is why I mount my controllers outside of the tiller pilot. The motor can get a few drops of water, and dry out and still work. The electronics can't.

Originally Posted by liquidice

My AH1000 re-broke for the last time and I ended up replacing it with a black rubber trucker’s tie down bungee. The hooks go into the
...

If you spend any significant time off-shore in swell using sheet to tiller arrangement, you will notice that chafe increases, and sailing efficiency decreased. In a lot of conditions you need a driving sail, and steering sail. I was using my storm jib in only 30-35 knots of wind, because all the other sails were too powerful for my bungee.

Off the wind, the course is not very straight, but it depends on the boat as well. Then the constant adjustment in changing wind, where other solutions do not require this. A great backup system, but because of increased chafe alone I do not advise it.

Originally Posted by thomm225

I had to open it a couple times because the keys/buttons would get stuck when I would hold them down hard to recalibrate after a tack while trying to steer. You have to disconnect power while holding down the cal button etc and I couldn't reach the switch so I would do this at the plug. When I had it apart the gyro ribbon cable came unplugged but I got all that working again

That is not a gyro, it is a gimbaled fluxgate compass, which is obsolete. Imagine it swinging around in there.

I blew it up when I wired it wrong even though I believe I've made that mistake before and it didn't fail. I have it here in front of me now. I opened it hoping to find a fuse or a burnt component but it's all very small surface mount stuff

My controllers all have reverse polarity protection, so plugging backwards does no harm. I also have a lot of other protections as well.

The motor is probably fine

I'm sure it is. I have several like this, and wire my controller directly to the motor.

[thomm225]

So like I said at the beginning of this, the shaft now moves freely...….as if it's no longer attached to the gearing/linkage.

I was about to go to sleep and realized that I hadn't even tried to figure out what was wrong with it. I didn't want to open it up because it could void the warranty

And on the boat after it swerved off course like 90 degrees plus and the shaft came way out, I just disconnected the thing and started steering then after an hour tied the tiller in about the position I was steering and corrected as needed with my legs

This at the end of maybe 75 miles for my weekend trip

Anyway, Long story short. I picked the pilot up a bit ago and was messing around with it and started to screw the shaft back in. It spun and spun then connected and tightened up!

So I had to go test it. And it works fine!

Thanks for all the replies and sorry for the false alarm. It still doesn't sound that great but it's definitely working.

The shaft on the Simrad will not unscrew and may have a pin thru it. I think I'll take the Simrad to work and hook it up to a 12 volt power supply while I have it open. I truly believe I have hooked it up wrong in the past without harming it. Plus I see no burn/arc marks on the circuit board

So I guess the $500.00 I was going to use for a new autopilot can now go towards a new dodger and SS Frame...…..and/or a new outboard bracket

[lockie]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Anyway, Long story short. I picked the pilot up a bit ago and was messing around with it and started to screw the shaft back in. It spun and spun then connected and tightened up!

This is another failure I experienced, and Raymarine repaired it under warranty, so yes the shaft can unscrew itself.

Re the earlier post about lead screws vs recirculating balls, the ST2000+ has a recirculating ball drive.

[barnakiel]

Pelagic gets some good some bad opinions. Just like any other thing we buy these days. It is sure a valid option. Read Webb's reflexions they are there in his blog from his last rtw.


barnakiel