Help me choose RAYmarine or Garmin Plotter/AIS

[George DuBose]

When GPS antenna's battery went dead in the middle of a cruise around the North Sea, I wanted to buy a handheld GPS with charts to get me back to my home port.

I went to an AWN chandlery in Kiel, Germany(well-known for list pricing+). They had a Garmin model for over 300 euros. I bit the bullet. Then when I asked them for a chart of northern Europe, they told me it was going to be over 400 euros and take three days for delivery. What happened to downloading???

Then when I was back aboard and opened the box, I couldn't believe my eyes. The handheld GPS was designed upside down. Screen being at the bottom, keys being at the top and when you try to "hang" it from the wrist band, it hangs upside down.

What else would you expect from landlubbing South Koreans? I am sure that who ever designed this GPS had never been on a boat.

Needless to say, I won't EVER be buying any Garmin products.

[Hamish_ct]

Have you looked at the B&G equipment? I believe they are now owned by Raymarine. For sailors B&G is the way to go. The software and screens are built for sailing. Just reequipped my boat with B&G Vulcan, Trinton Screens, Wind and Speed/Depth sensors. Love it. Easy to install. For a sailboat, B&G is the way to go. Specialized for sailings.

Fair Winds

Hamish

[moseriw]

Hamis: a good way to sink your money
I stick on my ancient ST60 wind, sounder, log + AIS/WLAN and my cheap tablets.

[David Mathis]

Garmin is about the most user friendly devices available and they have wonderful customer service with little or no wait time. My choice will always be Garmin.

[Hamish_ct]

moseriw: B&G equipment price point has been reduced significantly since Raymarine took over. Although some cruiser like to go cheap and use cheap tablets for navigation, I have found reliability problems with this type of setup. If a boater is going to look at Raymarine, it is worth the cost to look at B&G.

I race and cruise my boat. The B&G network is very reliable, weather resistant, and always works, especially when you need it. If Tablets work for you, that is great keep doing what you're doing. The expense of having a reliable network and reliable equipment, for really not that much, to me is worth the expense.

When it comes to safety, I would rather install professional equipment.

Enjoy

Fair winds

Hamish

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Hamish_ct

moseriw: B&G equipment price point has been reduced significantly since Raymarine took over.

Unless something changed recently B&G as well as Simrad are owned by Navico, not Raymarine.

Have a Garmin GPS and radar but B&G/Simrad AP and have been very happy with the combination.

[Hamish_ct]

Skipmac. Apologies for the confusion, you are correct B&G is owned by Navico.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Hamish_ct

Skipmac. Apologies for the confusion, you are correct B&G is owned by Navico.

Well the only reason I knew is from calls to tech support where one number leads you to both companies.

[Recy]

And Navico is now owned by Brunswick Corporation.

[pas63]

Go with anything but Raymarine, they have screwing the customer to an art. None of the older ray equipment will work with the latest gear. I relented and this summer upgraded to an Axiom and added a wind sensor and display, and today just picked up an AIS700 because I didn't want to replace the autopilot or backbone. In hind site I wish I had.

I have had the boat since 2007 and when I purchased her, all the instruments were shot. I aded a Raymarine E80, and autopilot. I didn't add a wind sensor/display because it would require pulling the mast and I was hoping a wireless solution would be offered. About 10 years ago Ray bought Tac-tic. I though great, they will incorporate it. Ten years later they finally did, well not exactly. In order to integrate the wireless mast sensor you need a $250ish little hockey puck that connects to the backbone and talks to the masthead sensor. Great, hook it all up (Axiom, wind sensor and display) and.... Nothing, neither the Axiom nor the wind display sees the wind sensor. What the wind display does see is the autopilot and tells me something to the effect it can't configure sensors with the autopilot connected.

So I call Ray tech support and find out that you can't configure the wind sensor/hockey puck with either the wind display or Axiom, you have to buy a $550ish handheld display to set up the sensor. More annoying, the hockey puck and sensor have to be within 1' to configure. Even more annoying, the handheld display has to be on for the Axiom and or mounted display to read wind data.

Fast forward to today, start reading up on the AIS and find out that even though the Axiom has a built in GPS antenna, the AIS requires its own antenna, GPS data can't be shared between them. So now I need to figure out where to mount the damn antenna that will provide a clear path and also where I cad drill a 3'4" hole through the deck to route the cable. Thanks again Raymarine.

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by pas63

Fast forward to today, start reading up on the AIS and find out that even though the Axiom has a built in GPS antenna, the AIS requires its own antenna, GPS data can't be shared between them. So now I need to figure out where to mount the damn antenna that will provide a clear path and also where I cad drill a 3'4" hole through the deck to route the cable. Thanks again Raymarine.

This one is not Raymarine's fault ... it's actually a requirement of the AIS certification.

[pas63]

Kelkara, I've since discovered that, my bad. From additional reading, I believe it is because your position and AIS info is transmitted back. I wondered how a ship's his data/position was plotted on a map when the ship is in the middle of the ocean. The Ray tech could have told me this when I asked.

[donradcliffe]

A bit of Raymarine feedback posted on another forum today

So this.* The touch screen went out on my four year old ES97 chart plotter.* I sent it in with the $1000 "we will fix it" price.* They call back a couple weeks later saying that they cannot fix it and cannot replace it so want to know if I want a "special" deal on a refurbished Axiom Pro.* I was assured it would work with my existing ES98 and all of the transducers, so I drop another $700 after my initial $1000.* It shows up and I get the ES98 upgraded to a special rev of LightHouse 3 designed for the ES series so that everything can talk.* All seems good until I turn on my ST6001 autopilot.* Neither plotter can see it.* Apparently Lighthouse 3 will only interface with an EV pilot.* GGRRrrrr...* Several unanswered voicemails and a unceremoniously closed email ticket with no explanation.* Why oh why didn't I go with Garmin back in 2016 during the initial refit when I had the chance.* Radar went last year and now this.* Beware fellow shipmates.* Its my opinion that Raymarine has serious quality issues and a terrible support program.

[mjoplin]

You've opened up the proverbial "Coke vs Pepsi" debate and all the emotion that goes with it.

At the end of the day, whether Furuno, Garmin, Navico, or Raymarine - they all do essentially the same thing and are not terribly distant from one another on the price point.

Go to a local West Marine (or other store) that generally has a wall of units in demo mode that you can try for yourself. Try them all - spend hours there (good investment of time as you are going to spend some $$$'s and will have to live with the choice for a while).

Pick the one that YOU like best and is easiest for you to operate. Nobody else's opinion really matters in the end: your $$'s, your boat, your investment!

I install all of these for a living. There is not much difference between the brands: they all have power cables, network cables, antenna cables, etc to run and all tend to work best when the equipment all comes from them (radar HAS to be the same brand).

On the VHF and AIS front, mix and match to your heart's content, they pretty much all inter-operate and generally the brands that specialize in this equipment have great offerings at lower prices vs the Furuno/Garmin/Navico/Raymarine brands.

These debates are always interesting to watch as there are many STRONG opinions on what should be best for the OP. Go try some out and figure what works for you!

The other debate that makes for great people watching is using Mercury-branded motor oil vs. Rotella, other brands,.... Those bring out more strong opinions then electronics!

Best of luck in your choice and installation!

[mjoplin]

@donradcliffe - your old ST6001 control head is most likely speaking to an old Type 150 AP or something similar via a SeaTalk 1 network. The actual control box under the helm will support NMEA 0183 in/out and your SeaTalk 1 stuff (ST6001) is networked with it.

Get something like the Actisense NMEA 0183 to NMEA 2000 bridge (there are others), connect to NMEA0183 in/out on your AP control box, and use an adapter (Raymarine A06075) to connect it to your SeaTalkng/NMEA 2000 network.

It will absolutely work. You can set up a route in your Axiom, follow it, and set your AP to track on the ST6001.

What it won't do is allow you to control individual AP functions through your Axiom like it will for an Evolution AP system. You can't access the AP menu functions, settings, etc from the Axiom.

They will ABSOLUTELY communicate and work together for navigation on routes, heading holds, etc.

Also, ensure that your ES and your Axiom stay on the exact same revision of LH3 or you will have issues. It is 3.11.42 (Cannes is the named version).

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

A bit of Raymarine feedback posted on another forum today

So this.* The touch screen went out on my four year old ES97 chart plotter.* I sent it in with the $1000 "we will fix it" price.* They call back a couple weeks later saying that they cannot fix it and cannot replace it so want to know if I want a "special" deal on a refurbished Axiom Pro.* I was assured it would work with my existing ES98 and all of the transducers, so I drop another $700 after my initial $1000.* It shows up and I get the ES98 upgraded to a special rev of LightHouse 3 designed for the ES series so that everything can talk.* All seems good until I turn on my ST6001 autopilot.* Neither plotter can see it.* Apparently Lighthouse 3 will only interface with an EV pilot.* GGRRrrrr...* Several unanswered voicemails and a unceremoniously closed email ticket with no explanation.* Why oh why didn't I go with Garmin back in 2016 during the initial refit when I had the chance.* Radar went last year and now this.* Beware fellow shipmates.* Its my opinion that Raymarine has serious quality issues and a terrible support program.