Help with ssb choice

[Davidhoy]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

See the video for a very thorough explanation of HF DSC.



The advantage compared to VHF DSC is range. VHF DSC good only to 50 miles or so. Not very useful if you're in the middle of the ocean. HF DSC has potentially unlimited range.



A DSC distress call doesn't have to be addressed to anyone. It goes out (if you set it up that way) automatically on 6 different bands, so is almost guaranteed to reach some coast guard somewhere.

What is the advantage of HF DSC over an EPIRB? Seems to me that an EPIRB's continuous beacon and totally independent system (i.e. not reliant on boat's batteries, electrical system, GPS receiver, HF transceiver, etc) would be far preferable in the case of an emergency. Not saying that multiple means of calling for help is a bad thing by any means, but I'm inclined to lean towards the EPIRB if I'm in true distress...

Regards,
David

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Davidhoy

What is the advantage of HF DSC over an EPIRB? Seems to me that an EPIRB's continuous beacon and totally independent system (i.e. not reliant on boat's batteries, electrical system, GPS receiver, HF transceiver, etc) would be far preferable in the case of an emergency. Not saying that multiple means of calling for help is a bad thing by any means, but I'm inclined to lean towards the EPIRB if I'm in true distress...

Regards,
David

One is not a substitute for another. Of course you need an EPIRB in any case.

The big difference is that HF radio gives you TWO WAY COMMUNICATIONS. An EPIRB is merely a scream for help, and no one can answer. With the radio, you can TALK to the rescue services, coast guards, vessels responding to your call, discuss your situation, find out what they are doing, get advice, make specific requests (like for a dewatering pump or particular kind of medicine) etc., etc., etc. Can't do that with the EPIRB.

Because of the way radio watches are now maintained on HF radio, you need DSC to initiate a distress call. So I think DSC is essential -- not having it now invalidates one essential function of the radio, perhaps THE essential function.

[El Pinguino]

I have to say I have not met a single cruiser ( and I have met a few) who has ripped out their existing HF station and replaced it with an 802/DSC ...

And not many cruisers go sailing where there is not a VHF DSC equipped ship within 60 miles.

I am all for VHF DSC.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I have to say I have not met a single cruiser ( and I have met a few) who has ripped out their existing HF station and replaced it with an 802/DSC ...

And not many cruisers go sailing where there is not a VHF DSC equipped ship within 60 miles.

I am all for VHF DSC.

It's true that the great majority of cruisers never leave civilized coastal area, and that for them HF DSC is not needed. In fact, for them, HF radio altogether is not really needed except maybe for fun.


But a person like the OP who is choosing an HF radio should keep in mind -- if you DO ever need the HF radio for distress signalling -- in a remote area or in the middle of an ocean -- it WON'T WORK without DSC.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

It's true that the great majority of cruisers never leave civilized coastal area, and that for them HF DSC is not needed. In fact, for them, HF radio altogether is not really needed except maybe for fun.


But a person like the OP who is choosing an HF radio should keep in mind -- if you DO ever need the HF radio for distress signalling -- in a remote area or in the middle of an ocean -- it WON'T WORK without DSC.

Ummmmm.... all the cruisers I meet for many years now have long since left 'civilized coastal areas' and most don't just use their HF for 'fun'.

When the OP asks a very well defined question.. ie which of two radios to choose I answer that question.
When someone asks which portable is best I answer that question.

I am willing to accept that they have done their homework and know what their other comms options are.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by GILow

Now you only posted that to make me drool.

That seems to have worked then

A 'Lancha Chilota' ... very few of them left... less than a dozen maybe. Standard cargo carriers around Isla Chiloe up until the 70s.
I sailed on one, converted to a 'dude Chilota' with a cabin, in Mejillones of all places (pic).
Sailed well enough for a boat designed to dry out and load from bullock carts.

Do I win the 'furthest off topic in 2016' prize?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Ummmmm.... all the cruisers I meet for many years now have long since left 'civilized coastal areas' and most don't just use their HF for 'fun'.

When the OP asks a very well defined question.. ie which of two radios to choose I answer that question.
When someone asks which portable is best I answer that question.

I am willing to accept that they have done their homework and know what their other comms options are.

Well, sure. There are all different ways to skin the cat.

I do not, however, think that a suggestion to give some thought to DSC, when someone is choosing a HF radio, is at all out of place. Not only for the benefit of the OP, but for others reading this thread.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

That seems to have worked then

A 'Lancha Chilota' ... very few of them left... less than a dozen maybe. Standard cargo carriers around Isla Chiloe up until the 70s.
I sailed on one, converted to a 'dude Chilota' with a cabin, in Mejillones of all places (pic).
Sailed well enough for a boat designed to dry out and load from bullock carts.

Do I win the 'furthest off topic in 2016' prize?

Beautiful!!

Thread drift is healthy and natural, on here just as it is in normal conversation.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

That seems to have worked then



A 'Lancha Chilota' ... very few of them left... less than a dozen maybe. Standard cargo carriers around Isla Chiloe up until the 70s.

I sailed on one, converted to a 'dude Chilota' with a cabin, in Mejillones of all places (pic).

Sailed well enough for a boat designed to dry out and load from bullock carts.



Do I win the 'furthest off topic in 2016' prize?

Superb.

But your off-topic rating is not that impressive. Maybe a 3 out of 10. Someone posted photos of Chinese Vampire deer on my thread about batteries and inverters. Now that was OT.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by GILow

. . . But your off-topic rating is not that impressive. Maybe a 3 out of 10. Someone posted photos of Chinese Vampire deer on my thread about batteries and inverters. Now that was OT.

ROTFLMAO!

[Ip485]

Dockhead

Thank you - a really good explanation and learnt a lot. I agree with your comments.

In my case I have Fleetbroad band so I guess that is enough expense and I cant really justify replacing the SSB, as I see that as my primary way of establishing two ways comms in a dire emergency.

I am guessing that you stand a reasonable chance of raising someone on a Ham band or one of the nets in some places if you are in dire need, but of course this is likely to be less reliable than a DSC distress.

In Europe I wonder whether any of the coast guards actually monitor HF for distress calls - perhaps they do, but when I asked Falmouth if they had any HF services they said not - they had all be withdrawn. Fortunately they still have a 'phone and you can call them from any where in the world they tell me!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Ip485

Dockhead

Thank you - a really good explanation and learnt a lot. I agree with your comments.

In my case I have Fleetbroad band so I guess that is enough expense and I cant really justify replacing the SSB, as I see that as my primary way of establishing two ways comms in a dire emergency.

I am guessing that you stand a reasonable chance of raising someone on a Ham band or one of the nets in some places if you are in dire need, but of course this is likely to be less reliable than a DSC distress.

In Europe I wonder whether any of the coast guards actually monitor HF for distress calls - perhaps they do, but when I asked Falmouth if they had any HF services they said not - they had all be withdrawn. Fortunately they still have a 'phone and you can call them from any where in the world they tell me!

Of course, if you have a sat phone, you've got two-way comms, and that's quite enough. In your case, assuming you are a non-SOLAS vessel, I wouldn't bother with upgrading the SSB.

Be assured that Falmouth, like all other coast guards, definitely keeps a watch on HF DSC. It's a fundamental and non-optional part of the GMDSS system.

HF DSC is actually REQUIRED for SOLAS vessels navigating in Sea Area 4 (and it's very hard to fulfill the requirements of Sea Area 3 without it), even if they have Inmarsat on board.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Davidhoy

What is the advantage of HF DSC over an EPIRB? Seems to me that an EPIRB's continuous beacon and totally independent system (i.e. not reliant on boat's batteries, electrical system, GPS receiver, HF transceiver, etc) would be far preferable in the case of an emergency. Not saying that multiple means of calling for help is a bad thing by any means, but I'm inclined to lean towards the EPIRB if I'm in true distress...

Regards,
David

The EPIRB is necessary since someone will årobably pick this signal up. An SSB allows you to talk with someone and realize you are being heard. Fellow I know went up on a reef a couple of years ago in the pacific - he fired everything off EPRIB, PLB and a DSC Mayday via his SSB.

He claims the loviest words he's ever heard in his life was the Aussie coast guard coming back at him on the SSB

"Hello - We've got you"

Can only imagine what that feels like when you have water up to around your knees and the boat is going down..........................

[Goudurix]

Originally Posted by Ip485

It's a logical choice because:

1. Has DSC -- an extremely important capability, essential if you want to use the radio for distress comms, since SAR services no longer keep voice watches on HF.

I agree with all your other points.

This point intrigued me. I agree in Europe there is no one left apparently monitoring HF - I think even Osted has gone. I dont entirely follow your point about DSC, is this with reference to transmitting on HF?

I'm checking if indeed Ostend Radio is Y/N still monitoring MF and HF voice emergency channels.In 2001 the Ostend Radio services were moved to the belgian navy. Will try to find ou and post here even this is hijacking the thread a bit.
Jan
ON3ZTT

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Goudurix

I'm checking if indeed Ostend Radio is Y/N still monitoring MF and HF voice emergency channels.In 2001 the Ostend Radio services were moved to the belgian navy. Will try to find ou and post here even this is hijacking the thread a bit.
Jan
ON3ZTT

Not hijacking at all -- relevant to the topic and relevant to the OP's choice of radio. We will look forward to hearing what you find out.