High level advice on Sat vs HF

[ka4wja]

Alex,
Sorry to be coming in a couple weeks late...but hopefully I can both answer your basic questions AND point you to some more info...
{In full disclosure, I'm a "radio nut", been one for 40 some years now....(and I do think that every offshore sailboat should have HF-SSB comms on-board, and in your area of the world, HF-DSC-SSB) BUT...
But, I'm also someone who has made his living in communications, particularly satellite communications, and in the past couple decades commercial sat comm...(and I do love Iridium) SO...
So, I hope to be able to give you a perspective devoid of too much bias???
Well, I will try... }

And, please know that all of your questions have been asked and answered here before....I know it is confusing to wade through all the techo mumbo-jumbo, but please understand that the reason that most still use HF radio is:
It's reliable, it works rain or shine, worldwide, gets you easily in touch with the authorities when really needed, and is relatively inexpensive!!!
And, you get great weather info from it, for free!!


1) First off, the "satellite" vs. "SSB" discussion comes up often, but unfortunately it gets ramped up fast and by the time cool heads prevail most of those seeking advice / info have long since moved along...
Hope you're still around??

And, the first important thing to understand (we'll get to the details in a moment, just take it on faith right now) is:
The discussion should be "satellite" vs. "PACTOR modem", not versus "SSB" or "HF"....
But, we'll get to that in a minute...



2) Specific to your query, "satellite" vs. "HF"...
Understand up front that what most long-distance sailors / cruisers need these types of communications for are:
-- Safety / Distress calling...
-- Weather info / forecasts...
-- Contacting other vessels (both other cruisers and merchant vessels)
-- Contacting shoreside....whether family/friends, or for business purposes...
And, all of these when offshore / away from terrestrial infrastructure / at sea / in far remote locales...
And, many times these are needed most when the weather conditions are the worst....so be sure to figure that into your understanding of how these different systems work and how well they will fit your application...

So, the first direct answer for you is:
a) "satellite" is "point-to-point"....and you must know who you want to contact, and how to get in touch with them (their number, etc.)
b) "HF" radio is a "broadcast", meaning that it goes everywhere, to everyone, that is within range of your signal...(whether it is SSB Voice, or HF-DSC, calling on it will get thru to someone, somewhere...)



3) Depending on what type of sat comm gear (handheld sat phone, vs. low-speed-data connection, vs. full-fledged satellite terminal, etc.) will depend on how well it works for you, in your application...(and on how much it will cost....but, for most that choose sat comm, figure about $1500 to $2000 USD, for equipment....plus air-time costs...


4) "HF" radio gear, such as marine "SSB" equipment, depending on your needs/application, can cost you $300 - $500 (for some older used gear), on up to $2000 - $3000 USD (for a new, complete HF-DSC-SSB Radiotelephone set-up)


There is, of course, a lot more to all of this....but..
But, wrote that you wanted "basic information"...so that's where I'm starting...


Here are some specific answers for you...

Originally Posted by Seas the Day

Hi,
This is my first post on this board so hello to everyone. After many years racing keel boats on Sydney Harbour I'm taking up cruising around the South Pacific. As I will have long stretches away from shore I want some form of communications with family, friends and if ever required emergency services on shore.
In Australia and S. Pac, Indian Ocean, terrestrial infrastructure is limited to populated coastal areas....so, you will have vast areas where you will be without comms unless you have HF radio or Sat comm...
Since the US, Aus, NZ, French, and Japan, navies / coast guards have good reputations for Search And Rescue, and do cover the Pacific, etc.
And, since Aus, NZ and Brueni, etc. excellent shore-side radio infrastructure...
And, since there are literally 1000's of merchant vessels / SOLAS-grade vessels plying those waters weekly...
It makes sense to equip your boat with a means of contacting all of these people / services...
And, that is MF/HF-DSC-SSB Radiotelephone (like the Icom M-802, at $1800 USD)
This allows seamless contact with shoreside stations as well as with SOLAS / merchant vessels....
If you do not have MF/HF-DSC signaling, and only have Voice SSB HF radio, you will still be able to raise Aus and NZ maritime authorities (when in range) and also the USCG when in range of USCG stations...but no other stations...
FYI, there are > 80 HF-DSC coast stations world wide....and > 450 MF-DSC coast stations world wide...that maintain a DSC radio watch, but NOT a Voice radio watch....not to mention the 1000's of merchant vessels that are monitoring MF/HF-DSC, but not Voice SSB...

And, if you wish some of the best offshore weather info/forecasts....they are transmitted (for free) over HF radio, via WeFax, from Aus, NZ, US, Japan, etc...covering your area of sailing...

Also, remember that Aus does have HF radiotelephone networks, as does Brunei....so, calling home is also possible...but, this isn't for free....

I read a lot of detail about HF and satellite on this site but its too detailed at this stage. Can anyone provide basic information on the merits of HF versus Satellite and vice versa?

My estimate of minimum requirements are:
Text communications
Do you mean written weather reports?? (that would be NAVTEX or SafetyNET...both free on HF radio)
Or do you mean you wish to send/receive "texts" to friends/family??? (because that might be best served by Iridium...or even IridiumGO)

Access to weather reports
WeFax (and NAVTEX) is best....and is free....and HF radio is best here...


Optional requirements:
Voice Communications
To other cruisers, other vessels...HF radio is necessary....if wishing to contact merchant vessels, then MF/HF-DSC is necessary...
If you just want to "call home" when at sea, then either HF radio or sat comm works here, but many will give Iridium the edge in simplicity...


Internet - email and on-line Forex trading (not data intensive)
If reliable e-mail is needed, especially time-sensitive e-mail, then Sat Comm is best...
If always available e-mail / low-bandwidth data comms is necessary, then sat is absolutely necessary....and this does NOT mean a handheld sat phone, but a real sat comm terminal....think Iridium Pilot or INMARSAT FleetBroadband (about $4000 to $6000 USD, plus airtime)

If actual "internet" access is needed, here too, sat comm terminal is an absolute necessity!! And, while Iridium Pilot of INMARSAT FB will work, you'll probably want at least a FB250 (at > $10,000 USD) or a VSAT system (at $15,000 to $50,000 USD) plus airtimes...

And, if considering these sat comm terminals, in addition to the deck space needed, please don't forget the electrical power needed!!!


If you think I need other services please advise such. I'm sure I will have more questions later on the detail.

Many thanks in anticipation of your assistance.

Alex

Alex, as I wrote above, all of this has been gone through many times before....but, I know trying to figure out all the details and wade thru the BS can get frustrating, so this is why I just answered your questions directly, without drifting around, nor imposing any bias....

If you wish to know more, or get into more discussion, I would be more than happy...just let me know...
(and in addition to more detail/info, I will point you to some recent discussions here...)

'Til then...Fair winds..

John

[sck5]

the first time i went down to the islands was about 7 years ago - I had an ssb with a pactor modem but no sat phone. The ssb was great for cruiser nets and the pactor modem worked for email but was a bit of a pain to use. propagation is sometimes an issue and it is always a bit cumbersome and time consuming. Some I knew wrestled with installation issues - I had it done professionally but even then discovered that I had to turn off the refrigerator and inverter when I tried to use it or it wouldnt work. (It turned out that no amount of ferrites or wiring fixes did a better job than just turning off the offending equipment.

The second time I went south on my new boat was two years ago. I installed my own ssb this time and have a very good clean signal. Thanks to Gary at Dockside radio for his clear instructions! Cant thank him enough. but now we have an iridium phone. We bought it used for about half the price of a new setup and we use it all the time - no more email over hf radio for us! Here are a couple of obserations from my experience:

- look for a used iridium setup. Much cheaper. The new 9555 is good but the old 9505 it replaced is just as good. If the weatherproofing they added to the new model is ever really necessary maybe I will change my mind but so far it has not been.

- put the coast guard number on speed dial. even if you are out of range of the US they will know who needs to be called and will call them if necessary. They are always there.

- DO get the external antenna. It makes a HUGE difference

- DO get the "optimizers" sold by various vendors. My favorite is GLobal Marine Networks. They are great.

- Dont try to surf the internet over the iridium or the SSB. Wait until you get to port. It is way too much trouble and besides, why are you sailing out on the ocean just to spend time on the internet?

- My experience is that the best equipment for calling home is a decent unlocked cell phone with a local sim card bought after arrival on whatever island you arrive at. Really. The people there need to make calls off island and the best method for them is also the best method for you. And the cheapest. And that is a cell phone with a local number.

- I dont want to hear about emergencies at home while I am on the high seas. What on earth am I going to do about it besides worry? Remember that until around 10 or 15 years ago nobody on earth had constant accessibility 24/7 and we all used to survive just fine. They will manage just fine without your input for however long it takes you to get to port. Enjoy the passage and call them when you get to wherever you are going.

There you have my 2 cents. Everyone I know has done just fine ever since I went sailing. They seem to be able to figure things out without me! It might even be good for them. I know it is good for me.