How to go about SSB Troubleshooting

[SV Allie Rose]

Tracing wires was more difficult than anticipated. Hopefully will have an update this afternoon once HAM guys come out and look. I'll try to get photos of the current grounding system and what problems arise as I go through this process. Thanks again for all the feedback.

[Pizzazz]

Let me try to be more helpful. It is not the end of the world if you transmit for a few seconds to test the radio even without a license. Here is my suggested workup:

1. Looks like you have an Icom 802 + Pactor modem. This is a typical marine setup.

2. You want to ensure 12V @ 30A fuse power to the radio, you want to check the connection from the radio to another box, called a tuner that should be somewhere close to the antenna (typically, it is a coax cable + some control/power cables for the tuner). At the tuner you want to see a lead that goes to the antenna and a copper strip or flat cable that connects to the grounding system.

3. If you are unsure of the quality of the grounding system (rust is no problem, you just want to make sure that the ground connection is a flat strip, at least 2" wide), you can test by getting some aluminum folio (used for cooking), connect one end to the tuner and throw the other end directly in the water.

4. Make sure that your antenna (typically the backstay) is correctly connected and isolated from the rest of the rig.

5. Read the manual for the Pactor modem and check its connections. Basically, it has an audio in/out connection to the radio, a transmit signal to the radio and a serial connection to the laptop. On the laptop you can either use a terminal application or an app like Winlink.

6. Once you have traced all the connections, make sure you can measure the current and voltage to the radio and you are ready to begin testing. Read the radio manual and learn how to select a frequency, set the radio power and how to read the SWR. SWR is a number between 1.0 and say 20.0 that tells you what portion of the signal power that the radio sends to the tuner/antenna is reflected back to the radio. You want this number to be as close to 1.0 as possible. Typically it would be between 1.2 and 2.0. Higher frequencies are easier to tune that lower frequencies.

7. Set the radio power to max (150W), select a frequency around 10.200 MHz, hold transmit and yell "Fourrrr" in the microphone. If all goes well you should see the radio draw around 25A @ 12 volts. This means the radio transmits at rated power. Observe the reflected power as indicated by the SWR number of the radio display. It will take a few seconds for the tuner to tune to your antenna. If it is close to 1.0 you are happy. If it is much higher than 2-3 then you have a problem in either your antenna or ground. Check the connections or do this temporary ground with the aluminum folio to see if it improves the SWR. If the tuner is tuning but your current draw is less than 20-25A, you have a problem with the radio power amplifier. If you can't get the SWR low enough despite checking the antenna and ground connections, you have a problem with the tuner.

8. Next, you would know that the radio works, that it transmits at rated power and you want to try to establish a connection. The easiest way is to install Winlink on a laptop, connect it to the modem (you need to do some reading here) and try to connect to a site close to you. You need to enter your location (hams use a special 6 letter location code, check the web for yours, enter it in Winlink and it will give you a list of stations close buy). Tune the radio to the indicated frequency, listen to make sure no one is using the frequency and attempt to establish a connection to a Winlink server. The program will start the connection, attempt to connect, exchange some information and then disconnect once it sees that you have no valid ham call sign. At least you will know that the radio transmits, receives and decodes properly. You may need to adjust the amplitude of your transmitted signal through Pactor commands.

9. Now start studying for your ham exam. Technically, it is illegal to transmit without a license but you are unlikely to get in trouble for a couple of connections one minute each. Or try to get a ham friend who can do that for you with his call sign. Much better.

Good luck.

[Brian.D]

Where is the RF unit of the radio? That image looks like the control head, front and back. I do not see any RF connections, ground, or power connector.

[phorvati]

Have you tried to power it up? And tuning to a maritime net or just any station?
Getting that to work would be half the problem.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

6. Once you have traced all the connections, make sure you can measure the current and voltage to the radio and you are ready to begin testing. Read the radio manual and learn how to select a frequency, set the radio power and how to read the SWR. SWR is a number between 1.0 and say 20.0 that tells you what portion of the signal power that the radio sends to the tuner/antenna is reflected back to the radio. You want this number to be as close to 1.0 as possible. Typically it would be between 1.2 and 2.0. Higher frequencies are easier to tune that lower frequencies.

I have been following this thread with interest, as my boat came to me with a icom 703 that I have had miserable success with and have mostly ignored. I even went and got my ham license specifically to be able to play in the ham frequencies, as this radio has been opened.

I like your methodology to test output power, makes perfect sense.

But this item six really caught my attention. Do these radios have an SWR readout built into them? I need to dig into the manual for this info, but if you know the answer I'd love to hear it.

Harry
KC3IAF

[Pegu Club]

First off; trace wires to make certain that the antenna tuner and the antenna proper are connected, do the same for the ground / counterpoise, also the radio should be connected to the battery for power. Now you can power it up to see if it works.

You do not need a Ham certification to broadcast and receive on the SSB nets, google “Dockside Radio” and follow the links to the SSB nets info for the east or west coasts of America, or the Caribbean, tune in to the DoDah net etc at the correct times and have a listen, and check in when the net get to that part of the broadcast, it is a valuable communication device for boaters when out and about, as well as when at anchor or in route, you may find you are having fun and likely will meet other SSB equipped boats in the anchorage you are in, good excuse to knock on a hull and introduce yourself

We have an ICOM 803 radio with an AT-140 antenna tuner, a KISS counterpoise, with a GAM split lead backstay antenna, works great and was very easy to set up. Looking forward to here you on the Do Dah or Cruishiemers net,

Fair winds,

[MicHughV]

Back in the day, a lot of people were reluctant to chase after getting a Ham license because of the then morse code requirement.
But the morse code requirement has since been removed, so getting your Ham license is a relatively simple matter.
A Ham radio/SSB radio is quite a complicated bit of machinery. It must work in tandem with an antenna tuner and an appropriate antenna.
Learning which frequencies to use when, is another learning curve. This is not like using a vhf. You will need to figure out which frequency to use when, etc.
If you've made contact with a local Ham club, I would follow this up, by studying and applying for your Ham license. It is all relatively simple. Several grades of licenses are possible. Your Ham club will explain all. Most all Ham clubs have programs that teach and arrange for taking the test.
That's my advice, as following this thread, it is clear that without this, you will not get anywhere.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by Marathon1150

Agreed. An 802 fresh from the factory cannot use the HAM bands so no license is necessary to operate the radio. If the special magical transformation has been applied by a previous owner to unlock the HAM bands, presumably a new operator would not be responsible for the unauthorized use of these bands.

However, I do agree with the advice regarding ensuring that an antenna is connected prior to powering up the radio. If the mike transmit key is depressed and there is no antenna, Icom indicates that this is a very bad thing and should be avoided.

Have to correct misinformation of US boats.

1. The magical transformation to open up the radio is:

With the radio turned off simultaneously hold down the "2", "mode", and "TX" keys at the same time, and power-on the radio.

2. If you or anyone else has opened up the radio, you are not permitted to transmit on the ham bands unless the operator hss the appropriate ham license or unless there is an emergency.

3. You are not permitted to transmit on the SSB bands unless the boat has a FCC license AND you the operator has a restricted radio operator's permit.

[ka4wja]

Allie Rose,
I'm quite tied up at the moment, but I will try to help you out.

{although not intended to show-off....just an fyi...I assisted in my first maritime HF-SSB install in 1973, when I was 12 years old....and have been using/installing/toubleshooting both HF maritime and HF ham systems ever since, and while I majored in Physics, I don't "teach" like a nerd...and, while I DO reference official sources as often as I can (IMO, USCG, Icom, Sailmail, etc., etc. etc.) in these videos, threads, and "stickies"....I also used my own boat, used my own radio, and my own words, so that you all can read, hear, and see what all of this does in the real-world, not in a classroom! }

Originally Posted by SV Allie Rose

Tracing wires was more difficult than anticipated. Hopefully will have an update this afternoon once HAM guys come out and look. I'll try to get photos of the current grounding system and what problems arise as I go through this process. Thanks again for all the feedback.

Three quick things here (more later, if needed):

1) Most of all the details you could ever need for installation, troubleshooting and operations of the Icom M-802 and most other HF Maritime radios, are covered in both of the "stickies" right at the top of this "Marine Electronics" page....and, in other threads and the videos linked there!

Please have a look see....it's all there for you, for free....no BS, no sales-pitches, no "simulations"....all real-world, from real sailor (and radio engineer) on a real offshore cruising boat.

HF-SSB Radio, Proper Installation Tips/Techniques, etc.
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...tc-198305.html


Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / properly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, etc.)
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...tc-133496.html



2) What you have on-board is an Icom M-802 MF/HF-DSC-SSB-Radiotelephone....along with what looks to be an older PACTOR modem (which is mostly unnecessary, but unfortunately "sold" to many unsuspecting sailors)....and, we assume also the matching Icom AT-140 ("antenna tuner").

If you provide it with sufficient, clean DC power (of ~ 12.0 to 14.0vdc, at up to ~ 28amps peak), then YOU should be able to do ALL the troubleshooting / testing / evaluation needed to ascertain if it works, how well it works, and how best to use it!

Please let me state this again, for effect.... YOU should be able to do ALL the troubleshooting / testing / evaluation needed to ascertain if it works, how well it works, and how best to use it!
You do NOT need anyone else...
You do NOT need any "special" equipment nor test-gear. (although, I assume you have a Voltmeter on-board, so I do not consider that "special")
ALL you need is your radio, your own eyes, the above referenced threads/"stickies", a decent voltmeter/multimeter, and that's it!

Although, in addition to this, I highly recommend that you spend a few minutes watching a few (free) Youtube videos, while skimming through the Icom M-802 manual!
{yes, is contrary to my usual advice "read the friggin' manual"....as, the M-802 manual is full of dozens of pages of confusing and mostly useless info (much of it is simply a significant over-complication of HF-DSC signaling!)....so, I recommend reading the above referenced "stickies", watch the videos, and then skim through the M-802 manual...}

Here are the videos:

M-802 Instruction Videos
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...rC-8QKVyMb4tVr


Maritime HF comms videos
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ZDo_Jk3NB_Bt1y


HF-DSC Videos
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ga2zYuPozhUXZX


Offshore Weather Videos
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...zdjTJjHlChruyY




And, although there's no "radio stuff" in these "sailing" videos...you may enjoy them anyway...
Offshore Sailing Videos
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...KgTCj15iyl6qoY



Please remember, these are all FREE....
Nobody is trying to sell you anything, no pleading for "likes" or "subscribes"....I made these myself in order to HELP my fellow sailors, not to make money!
And, these are all done in the real-world, LIVE, on-board a real offshore cruising boat (that I have personally sailed across the Atlantic)....no "simulations", no BS, nope....all done, LIVE as it happens, just like on your own boat!
(please be kind though....as it's just my radio, my fingers, and my extemporaneous narration....no script, no director, etc....so, my "production values" and editing are primitive)



3) Finally, while I've been a ham operator for many decades, and truly "love radio" (and my fellow hams)....but..
But, in our modern age ---- with most modern hams these days....the old advice to "call a local ham and have him figure things out for you", is questionable advice these days!

Fact is IF you read the above stickies and the links there-in, you'll quickly see/learn that you don't need an SWR meter, or "power meter" to do this testing/troubleshooting ('cuz the M-802 display does show you what you need to know here, in "general" figures....not absolutes)!
Also, fact is that most hams have no clue about "marine radios", and many will be intimidated by trying to make one work ---- and some may actually "try" too hard and end-up causing problems/issues with you radio system, where none existed before.

Although, Don did give you good info on how to put the M-802 into "open mode"....I can't imagine anyone having one on-board that isn't in the "open mode", in case yours isn't donradcliffe has told you how.



Okay, hope this helps?

Oh, and one final tip....it is your on-board RFI (and that from others on the dock) that will likely be the limiting factor in successfully testing this system...so, again, read all those stickies, watch those videos (download 'em if you wish).....
And, if you're then having problems talking to others on that radio, or even just hearing others on that radio....then, get your boat off the dock and turn-off / disconnect / unplug just about everything else on-board....and then give it a go!


73 and Fair Winds! (and good luck!)

John


P.S. Sorry if my advice above seems contrary to some other's advice....I'm not going to go through some of the erroneous info already posted, just tellin' straight: Read the stickies (and the links there-in), watch the videos, and then skim-through the M-802's manual....and, you'll be in better position than 95% of your fellow sailors and Maritime HF users!

[ka4wja]

Harry,
Please read my post immediately above, and follow those links there....as, this will get you all the info you could ever need!

Originally Posted by sailingharry

I have been following this thread with interest, as my boat came to me with a icom 703 that I have had miserable success with and have mostly ignored. I even went and got my ham license specifically to be able to play in the ham frequencies, as this radio has been opened.

I like your methodology to test output power, makes perfect sense.

But this item six really caught my attention. Do these radios have an SWR readout built into them? I need to dig into the manual for this info, but if you know the answer I'd love to hear it.

Harry
KC3IAF

1) Briefly, it is your receive noise that will usually be the limiting factor in successful HF comms!
Now, with a small LOW-POWER radio like the 10 watt Icom IC-703, it is true that you'll be seriously limited in successful HF operations even if you've gotten your on-board noise / RFI under control....fact is, your receive signal-to-noise ratio (S/N) is still gonna' be your limiting factor!

So, be sure to read up on RFI, etc.....above in those "stickies" and the links there-in!


2) In your case, with the Icom IC-703, the answer is yes it does have a built-in SWR and Power Metering!
But, again it is your receive noise (rec S/N) that is going to be a big limiting factor to your success here!




3) {note that the M-802 that we are discussing here, will show solid "SWR" on its display when SWR is 2:1 or over.....and will flash "SWR" when SWR is ~ 1.7:1 to 1.8:1 as a indication that it is approaching a need for a "tune".....and, the M-802's power output meter will show your output power in eight steps of ~ 15 - 20 watts each....

Of course, when speaking into your mic, the power output (in SSB Mode) varies up/down with your speech....so, simply selecting FSK Mode, and pressing the microphone push-to-talk button will transmit a steady carrier output of approx 140-150 watts output (in "Hi-Power"), and will show all eight segments illuminated....and in "Mid-Power", it will show ~ 3 - 4 segments illuminated, indicating ~ 60 watts output, and only one to two segments illuminate in "Low-Power" indicating ~ 15 - 20 watts output....

Another tip is, that when transmitting / testing in FSK Mode, if someone has an amp meter capable of measuring the current draw of the M-802 (such as a "clamp-on" DC amp meter), you can also approximate your output power, by knowing even more info that is provided in the stickies referenced above....~ 28 - 29 amps, at ~ 13 to 13.5vdc, at the radio, in Hi-Power....and, in transmit with NO POWER OUT AT ALL, you'd still be drawing ~ 5.5 amps!

These are just two examples of the details in the above referenced "stickies" that are right there, right up top of the "Marine Electronics" Forum here, that you're posting in....
I cannot get the information closer to you! LOL}


I hope this helps?

Fair winds and 73,

John

[argonauta1]

If there are no insulators dividing back stay(s) then they are not acting as an antenna.

[ka4wja]

This is of course, not true!

Originally Posted by argonauta1

If there are no insulators dividing back stay(s) then they are not acting as an antenna.

Sorry, I don't have the time to write a treatise on this...(perhaps having a look up at the top of the page, and read those "stickies" would be a good idea)

But, in brief....of course, anything metallic (or that can conduct some electricity) can act as an antenna....this is all a matter of degree, of how well / how effective it is.

While I don't recommend that folks load-up their entire rig (stays/mast, etc.) as an antenna ('cuz it can cause some serious RFI)....the fact is that there are sailors that have done so and been successful!


Gotta' go.
John

[argonauta1]

Quote I don't believe that the back stay has ever been used as the antena, and haven't taken the time to start tracing wires to see what may have been used alternatively. Unquote.

I should have said that if there are no insulators segmenting a backstay then it is highly unlikely your backstay is acting as the antenna. I have yet to see an SSB using the backstay as an unsegmented antenna although of course it could be but as an improper installation.

[ka4wja]

Huh?
1) I guess we aren't quite understanding each other?
But, no worries argonauta1.


2) Please remember that "the antenna" (in a modern marine HF system, whether for "maritime" and/or "ham" comms) starts at the remote tuner! (actually, the "tuner" is part of the antenna)

And, it is the first part / lower part of "the antenna" that is the most important part...as this is usually (on most bands and most installs) the high-current point, and hence radiates the most energy (in transmit) and also can pick-up the most offending RFI (in receive), as well as cause transmit RFI issues...

So, worrying about what insulators someone may have, or if they have them or not....well, it's kind-of a secondary concern, yes?

(but, I assume you were trying to point out that if the backstay didn't have any insulators, then it would be unlikely he'd find any wiring that others were suggesting he look for?
If that's the case, I disagree with you....he should still look and trace the wiring, as that is the only way to know....AND he'd also likely find the AT-140 tuner!
I cannot think of any reason at all to write if the backstay doesn't have insulators, then don't bother looking / trying, 'cuz it would "improper".... )



3) Perhaps you're not aware of a few facts?

a) Fact is that there are actually a few Cruiser's Forum members that DO use there entire rig as their main HF-SSB antenna (ham and maritime), for transmit and receive.

b) Also, there are some that have forgone a "lower insulator" and have simply driven a backstay from the chainplate below, and only use an upper-insulator.

c) Further, there are many that use their entire rig as their HF receive antenna, for Weather-Fax, SSB-Voice Weather broadcasts, HF-DSC reception, SW, etc...



4) In any case, I stand behind my earlier posts 100%!

Allie Rose should read the stickies, and the links there (if needed), watch the videos....trace the wires....and give-it-a-go!

At this point, in my opinion, there is no need for "an expert" to come on-board....(mostly 'cuz finding someone in most locales isn't that easy....and professionals, such as myself, bill-out at $1000/day minimum)...

And, while getting a local ham operator to help used-to-be a great suggestion, these days I recommend trying it on-your-own first....and then (if not having success using ALL the info here in the stickies and the links there, and in the videos, etc.), then finding a local ham to help.



Fair winds.

John

[SY Harmony]

No one has mentioned the possibility of an incomplete instal by the PO.