ICOM M-802 freezing up

[Cloud_9]

Just got it installed. But, it periodically freezes up while searching channels using the channel knob. I hear a loud squack over the speaker, then all the controls stop working, including the power off button. I have to unplug the DC power from the transceiver box, then plug it back in, which thankfully reboots it back into operation.

Can anyone shed light on this? Google search didn’t come up with much.

Thanks

[tanglewood]

New or used unit? My first suspicion would be a wiring or connection issue.

[Cloud_9]

Thanks tanglewood. All Brand new.

Boatyard installed antenna GTA15 to insulated backstay, bought lmr400 coax with pre-connected terminals between transceiver and tuner from Ham Radio Supply. All other cables from ICOM. Had marine electronics tech connect power leads and extra fuse to power bank to ensure ABYC standards.

I’ll try jiggling cables to see if that will trigger it.

[donradcliffe]

Any chance that flipping through the channels means that you are changing frequency bands and triggering an autotune function? If you have an antenna problem, it will try to tune for several seconds until the tuner switches to pass through mode.

Otherwise it could be an internal problem in the 802.

[CarinaPDX]

From what I am reading, you are just in receive mode. It is not going to tune (which requires a low-power transmission) unless you specifically call for it. As long as you are not transmitting that eliminates a very large number of causes. I would try to localize it by disconnecting the coax from the back of the radio, and if you can put the end of a length of wire into the center contact. (It goes without saying to not transmit, including selecting tune, once the coax is out.) I would also disconnect everything else except the power and speaker from the radio, then scan through the band. If the problem repeats then send the unit to Icom in Kirkland, WA for warranty repair. They are very good - just give them a call and get return instructions. If disconnecting things solves the problem then add back a connection at a time until the culprit is found. Also, it would be a good idea to monitor the supply voltage near the radio while scanning. My guess is that it is an internal problem in the radio but do confirm that first before returning the radio.


Greg

[ka4wja]

Cloud_9,


{Greg, CarinaPDX's, comments on trying the radio without anything connected, expect the 12vdc wiring and speaker is a good idea....but, I still think that if this is in fact a new unit, your Icom dealer will certainly replace it, no questions asked...}


1) First and foremost, if this is in fact a new unit....return it ASAP...
A new unit should not be doing this!!
And, while a call to Icom service in Washington is a good idea, I cannot fathom why your Icom dealer would not simply replace this unit??


2) Secondly, if you are in fact in the San Fran area, the good news is that you are near a good Icom HF Maritime dealer, Farallon Electronics...
Farallon Electronics 415-331-1924


3) Third, if you could give us some idea of what your M-802's display is showing when it "freezes up"???
That would be of help here....
But, in any case, since this is a new unit, your icom dealer will simply replace it....(if they give you any static about it, please let us know here....as well as a call to icom will get you satisfaction, as you will find out icom is fairly responsive and for a big corporation they're quick 'n decisive in helping their customers)

To be clear here...
Assume this "freezing up" is happening on receive???
So, if this is the case, it is almost certainly an internal issue inside the M-802....(while it is possible that on-board voltage instabilities could cause this, it's probable that you'd have other issues/problems with other systems too....also, while wiring / connections are usually 95% of what makes or breaks an electronics install, if what you describe is happening with the radio in receive, it is unlikely that it is an external wiring/connection issue...)


4) You were not clear in "who" installed the radio, tuner, wiring, etc....but, when I read "LMR-400" was used????
I begin to get a sick feeling in my gut that the installer is either totally inexperienced or even worse is just a plug-n-play type tech driven by some marketing hype...
{to be clear LMR cabling is not what you want on-board....and the difference in "loss" between 20 feet of LMR-400 versus RG-213 is only 0.1db (at 30mhz)...and less than 0.05db at the lower freq bands....and NOBODY, not even the best HF radio installer, can even test to any accuracy better than 0.5db to 1.0db....and NOBODY on-the-air can ever tell the difference between levels of less than 2 to 3db....and so on, and so on....
Fact is LMR-400 is good for VHF/UHF/SHF/Microwave in long lengths, but for HF use is completely and totally unnecessary and a total waste of money...
BUT...
But, even worse is the fact that it is stiff, difficult to work with, fairly frustrating to install in tight places, etc....it is also not to bent, kinked, etc....and while its connectors can be waterproofed, should moisture intrusion occur (highly likely on-board), the cable losses and integrity will be severely compromised, very quickly....
Further, the copper-clad solid aluminum center conductor is certainly not something that you want to get salt air or sea water on...(although LMR-400uf has a copper-stranded center conductor, and is easier to work with, it is still not recommended on-board...ever!)
Sorry about that rant....but this constant hyping of LMR cables these days is pretty disturbing...
BTW, I've been doing this since the early 1970's, so I've seen fads come-n-go....but this one is just too odd for words...
And, FYI....many of my fellow hams have also bought into this marketing hype, too....so, don't feel that it's just a "marine" thing!!}


5) Further, if your "boat yard" installed the GTO-15 wire and backstay insulators, etc....that's probably okay.....
But, I'd still want to make sure that they did this correctly....


6) A "loud squack"???
Well, is it possible that this is a DSC Alarm?? And, you're not familiar with the DSC functions??
I doubt this is the case...
It's likely an internal M-802 fault and as I wrote above (in #1) Icom will certainly replace your new unit for a defect like this...(but, as I wrote above in #3, we are not there on your boat and you haven't detailed what the radio displays or is doing when it is "frozen", so we cannot give you a 100% definitive answer...)

Although, if there is a wiring fault, such as some AC on the DC supply line, or AC shore power ingress into the radio wiring, etc...(both very unlikely)....these could cause some issues in the M-802, including "squacks" and freezing up, etc....
But, these are more zebras than horses!

Originally Posted by Cloud_9

Just got it installed. But, it periodically freezes up while searching channels using the channel knob. I hear a loud squack over the speaker, then all the controls stop working, including the power off button. I have to unplug the DC power from the transceiver box, then plug it back in, which thankfully reboots it back into operation.

Can anyone shed light on this? Google search didn’t come up with much.

Thanks

Originally Posted by Cloud_9

Thanks tanglewood. All Brand new.

Boatyard installed antenna GTA15 to insulated backstay, bought lmr400 coax with pre-connected terminals between transceiver and tuner from Ham Radio Supply. All other cables from ICOM. Had marine electronics tech connect power leads and extra fuse to power bank to ensure ABYC standards.

I’ll try jiggling cables to see if that will trigger it.

Cloud_9, if you read the stickies (and the links there) and watch the videos, you'll learn a lot...

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tc-198305.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tc-133496.html


Maritime HF Comms
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ZDo_Jk3NB_Bt1y


HF-DSC Comms
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ga2zYuPozhUXZX


Icom M-802 Instruction Videos
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...rC-8QKVyMb4tVr


Offshore Weather
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...zdjTJjHlChruyY


VHF-DSC
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...J6QugtO2epizxF


Offshore Sailing
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...KgTCj15iyl6qoY




Hope this helps..

Fair winds.

John

[ka4wja]

Cloud_9, et al,
I hope my late night post wasn't to abrupt...

But, fyi....I did forget to clarify a couple points....
1) In order to have a received DSC call actually cause this "freezing up", your M-802 would need to have been properly connected / installed, specifically meaning it would need to have a separate receive-only antenna connected to its "DSC Antenna" port...otherwise it would not be able to receive any "Safety", "Urgency" or "Distress" DSC calls via its built-in dedicated DSC receiver...
{although, if you were berthed next to / very near a ship testing their DSC system, you could be close enough to receive their signal without an antenna connected....it is unlikely that this would happen more than once, so in Cloud_9's case, this is unlikely...}


2) Also along the DSC front, a "Loud Squack" from the speaker would only be a DSC Distress Alert....as "non-distress" DSC calls (such as "safety", routine, etc.) will only produce a simple "beep" when received, not a "loud Squack"...


3) Something I forgot to write....although I think it was forcefully implied...
Please spend at least as much time learning about HF radiowave propagation and maritime HF communications techniques / procedures (as well as proper installation procedures), as the time you spent learning how to navigate, trim sails, proper anchoring, diesel maintenance, etc. etc...


4) Finally, back to my main points:
a) If this is a new unit, RETURN it....asap
b) If your Icom dealer who sold this unit to you, refuses to exchange it...immediately call Icom.
c) We are not on-board your boat, and therefore cannot give you much specific help without a lot more info from you...(what did the radio display when it "freezes", and did you try ALL buttons)
d) Get rid of the LMR-400 cable....it will be a lurking problem...
(heck, for 30 years SGC recommended RG-58 for HF SSB installs...and
most use just about any decent brand coax, whether RG-58, RG-8x,
RG-213, etc....LMR cables on-board are something to be avoided!)



I do hope this helps.

Fair winds...

John

[CarinaPDX]

I agree: this LMR thing is just bizarre. Many of us pay extra to get "marine grade" wire, which is finely stranded and tinned, in order to survive vibration and the corrosive environment. Buying a semi-rigid coax with a solid (plated) aluminum conductor is the exact opposite. Personally I installed RG-213 when I rigged the boat in 1980, and it is still going strong. (I do plan on replacing it the next time the mast is down, mostly because opportunities to work on the mast wiring are few and far between, not because of any critical need.)

As for the OP, once you have confirmed it is a radio, and not an installation, problem it really is a simple matter of contacting the dealer and asking for help. My personal style is to just state the problem and ask them what they are going to do about it, rather than insist on a replacement up front. If it was purchased recently then they probably will offer a swap, but I don't see a problem with a factory service center repair unless you are in a hurry. I have dealt with the Icom repair center and have had good experiences. As with most contemporary service operations, they will generally isolate problems to the board level and do a swap; this is great for warranty work but often too expensive for owners to justify.

Greg (KF7BW)