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nortonscove · 25-11-2018, 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Really?
Countless boaties travel the globe without it and have done for centuries

Many travelled without engines, dinghies, gps, charts and countless other modern amenities as well. Many were lost while whipping groups of captured slaves each with an oar in hand. The point is if you have it and don't need it fine. The inverse of this can get sticky. And since we do this for pleasure let's not remove the aspect for nothing.

**boatman61** · 25-11-2018, 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by nortonscove

Many travelled without engines, dinghies, gps, charts and countless other modern amenities as well. Many were lost while whipping groups of captured slaves each with an oar in hand. The point is if you have it and don't need it fine. The inverse of this can get sticky. And since we do this for pleasure let's not remove the aspect for nothing.

I take it you don't get a buzz from fear factors, the tightening and pucker then the rush as you come out the other side..

Kenomac · 25-11-2018, 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

Keno.. theres fog in the English Channel, theres fog on the French coast, NW Spain and down the Portuguese coast and I have managed just fine as I am.
What you do suits you and your style of boat handling.. what I do suits mine.. lets leave it at that.
I have nothing against those who choose to use it just as I have nothing against those who choose not to singlehand across oceans.
People also tell me its not safe to do what I do wothout shorebased weather 'gurus' advosing me across the Atlantic.
All the film proves is its just another tool that guarantees nothing other than it gives idiots the conviction they are invunerable.
I am convinced all car drivers should be compelled to ride m'bikes for 2yrs before they are allowed to drive a car.. But hey.. might as well post that lettter to Santa.
Good job theres plenty pf other delivery skippers to choose from..

Phil,

When I posted the video, I wasn’t directing it at you or others who don’t like radar, I was referring to the OP as the guy who has a working radar, doesn’t know how to use it and doesn’t understand the importance. The OP is also one who travels in narrow coastal waterways. I also agree with you regarding the river boat tug pilot in the video being incompetent due to lax regulations at the time of the accident.

Kenomac · 25-11-2018, 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter loveridge

I always hesitate to put anything on here as there are always posters who know better, but I have sailed here in Nova Scotia for well over 40 years, wrote the definitive cruising guide to the place , and travelled to the Bahamas and back.

Some time next week, in my home waters, more than 2000 fishing boats, most of them 50 feet long will be loose on the water. They all have radar, many have two, and NONE will be putting out on AIS. They may see you , but may well not if they are setting traps. In any case, they will be the stand on vessel. If you sail though this fleet without radar it is quite likely you will hit something. The sailing directions give more than 20 days of fog for every month of summer, and if you don't mind staying in port for two weeks waiting for it to clear, and you only sail in daylight, yes, you can do with out it, and I certainly did in the past. It wasn't easy and its very easy to come to grief.
For me, radar is the most useful single electronic instrument on the boat, and if you can afford one ( cheaper than many plotters) it is foolhardy in a place like this not to have one. My little Furuno only uses 2.2 A on transmit.
And, yes, a 30 knot fog breeze and 50 feet visibility is not the best time to learn to use it.

We experienced the same during seven weeks in Maine and Nova Scotia, the fog just suddenly appears even when not forecast and engulfs everything.

**boatman61** · 25-11-2018, 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Phil,

When I posted the video, I wasn’t directing it at you or others who don’t like radar, I was referring to the OP as the guy who has a working radar, doesn’t know how to use it and doesn’t understand the importance. The OP is also one who travels in narrow coastal waterways.

Keno.. was not taking it personally..
Just warning owners of my faults and short comings..
I try to be honest..

minou · 25-11-2018, 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Really?
Countless boaties travel the globe without it and have done for centuries

Just a thought
Haven't countless boaties hit bottom or rock faces and the like for countless centuries as well???
I spend 150 plus sea days out each year and the lowly depth sounder and radar most definitely the most welcome.
They will be first on and last off when I launch on my next boat

REALLY!

minou · 25-11-2018, 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Ummm....

Originally Posted by Navicula (with comments in red by Keelme)

Your vast experience would not appear to have included the use of effective utilization of the aids to navigation you have at hand, based on your above remarks. Unless, of course, your circumnavigations were non-stop. It might also surprise you somewhat that coastal navigation with lots of day hops can actually be a tad trickier, in regards to obstacle avoidance, when compared to open ocean sailing away from the shipping lanes.

Yep. Typo AND grammar, too.

Well said!!!
Throw a bit of 16 knot current and a bit of coastal breezes in there and things really get fun and interesting [emoji3]
Not really straight line point to point across an ocean sailing...
Just good old boring gunkholing with radar and rocks

**boatman61** · 25-11-2018, 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggeorgiev

Hello everyone,

My child dream is half way in - did purchase a Sefarer 34 last summer, put some work to restore it, and hopefully next summer it will be on the water. One question I can not firmly decide is if it's worth to keep the radar (JRC 1800) or to remove it. Aesthetically the boat will be better without, and I am not sure what advantage it adds.

A GPS knows every rock, the AIS will know every ship, except small ones, and as a friend put it, I have better chance of winning the lottery than hitting a small vessel. So what the radar is for? And it's power hungry.

Opinions welcome!
Thanks, George

Hi George..
I have done a few posts in this thread that may be misconstrued as i tend to post tongue in cheek once in a while.
Firstly.. do not put all your faith in gps.. I have been sailing a mile offshore and my gps has shown me following a ridge line more than 1 mile inland.. another occasion 25nm from where i actually was.. just outside Soller not down near Dragonera.
AIS will not show everything.. only the vessels that have it switched on.
As for your radar.. others have said its hungry and obsolete.. I would remove it personally while refitting and then either invest in the two way AIS or if the waters are as congested and subject to fog as those familiar with the area say.. get a light modern radar.
Folks say the chances of you hitting another small boat are near zero but..
I have been hit by another small boat in perfect viz and broad daylight.. I was relying on the motor gives way to sail rule.. They (4) were all down below with no lookout.
Evaluate your personal risk tolerance and skills then decide from there.
Theres no such thing as 100% no matter how many toys one has.
I do like the AIS.2way tho' and Will be getting one for my next boat.. see and be seen..

One Chance · 25-11-2018, 08:21

If your radar works I would definitely keep it. We don’t use ours daily, but in fog, bad weather (which can happen unexpectedly) or on night passages it is invaluable! Ours is an older Furuno unit which is power hungry compared to the newer versions but still works great.Keep it and don’t worry about how it looks on your boat- it’s a necessity !!!

TommmD · 25-11-2018, 14:08

Radar is a tool. We all have many, some are better than others for specific jobs. I personally really like AIS in the fog, but have been thru peasoup with ears & a bell. Have found that I care a lot more when there's family on board. Radar can see where your eyes can't. People did without penicillin too, doesn't mean I have to.

slipaway · 25-11-2018, 15:54

I think it has all been said about radar being another tool to assist in safe navigation...mandatory? No. Useful? Sure. But one thing I think needs to be emphasized about AIS as another "tool"... most recreational vessels do not have AIS transmit capability. I have seen an increasing number of cruisers making the assumption that everyone is transmitting! Have even sat around a discussion where that was espoused. This is leading, in my opinion, to a sense of complacency... "the AIS alarm will warn me of everything out there." Just not so. Another obscure AIS fact is that the AIS systems on larger vessels, i.e. Class A AIS transceivers can in some cases be set to ignore the Class B signal; as more and more small vessels transmit Class B AIS signals you can imagine more filtering will take place. You just can't assume your AIS signal will be seen and you shouldn't assume everyone else out there is transmitting one!

markpierce · 25-11-2018, 16:11

Radar is handy during restricted visibility. It is definitely not obsolete. GPS does not show obstacles such as ships. GPS is limited by the inaccuracies of charts: like GPS has shown me traveling on land while actually in a slough.

boatpoker · 25-11-2018, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by slipaway

I think it has all been said about radar being another tool to assist in safe navigation...mandatory? No. Useful? Sure. But one thing I think needs to be emphasized about AIS as another "tool"... most recreational vessels do not have AIS transmit capability. I have seen an increasing number of cruisers making the assumption that everyone is transmitting! Have even sat around a discussion where that was espoused. This is leading, in my opinion, to a sense of complacency... "the AIS alarm will warn me of everything out there." Just not so. Another obscure AIS fact is that the AIS systems on larger vessels, i.e. Class A AIS transceivers can in some cases be set to ignore the Class B signal; as more and more small vessels transmit Class B AIS signals you can imagine more filtering will take place. You just can't assume your AIS signal will be seen and you shouldn't assume everyone else out there is transmitting one!

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