Mac vs PC in marine environment

[wholybee]

I use Windows laptops. I get years of service out of the cheapest HP or Dell laptop money can buy.

I block updates and background connections in a firewall (using norton currently) so those issues are resolved.

And I coat all the ports (USB especially) with dielectric grease to prevent rust, which will happen very quickly otherwise.

I recently opened up my current 3 year old HP to change the battery(which will fail prematurely if left plugged into power). There were no signs of corrosion or any abnormal wear. Being on a boat doesn't seem to make any difference except for the USB ports.

[ChrisJHC]

Re the running costs of PCs vs Macs:

I saw a couple of reviews yesterday where two companies asked their IT departments what the actual 3-year TCOs were of PCs vs Macs.

The analysis included purchase price, resale price, maintenance, software, energy etc so was pretty comprehensive.

Both companies have offered their employees choice between PC and Mac for many years.

One company was one of the big four consulting firms, the other was a top 10 IT company.

One found that Macs were a few hundred dollars cheaper over a three year period whereas the other found that they were effectively the same.

Both were comparing high-end PCs and Macs so the numbers might be different for low end machines.

[TonyNA]

Originally Posted by SV Tom Crean

Colour me sceptical but unless you are doing video editing (and a lot of it) or some other compute intensive rendering then the M1 is overkill for 99% of users. A basic laptop with 8gb and an SSD is more than sufficient.

I have this discussion once a week with the Mac-fan employees in my business and yet when do the usual and ask “why?” 7 times, they can’t seem to justify it.

I had been using a Macbook for last 5 years for about everything, OpenCPN, engineering/cad and office app work that lived in a locker feeding a HDMI screen at our nav table. I had a 60watt USB-C 12v supply for power. The Macbook LiPo batteries starting to die (again) so I just upgraded to a dedicated boat computer that's a Mac Mini M1 and just love it. The HUGE advantage of the M1 processor is not just speed but far less power consumption. The M1 chips are more akin to mobile device processors where speed and low power consumption is important. Since the Mac Mini is 120/240vac I did install a very high quality pure sine wave inverter just for the computer that was engineered to be used in a radio environment (SSB HAM etc).



Overall I couldn't be happier. I use Parallels to run win10 engineering apps, SSB Winlink/Sailmail and get the best of both Mac and PC in in one fast and energy efficient box.

[cottonsail]

Maybe I'm missing something here or my pure lack of knowledge. I bought a new Mac air pro for $2700. With great disappointment I then found out it cannot recognize any GPS input. Possibly I was misinformed by Mac tech support, but I could never get any kind of GPS info to display. Additionally, after about 1 1/2 years of ownership the screen stopped displaying if I opened the screen to a normal position. I could only open it too about 40% without it shutting off. Apple wanted a stupid amount of money for the repair. It now resides in the garage. The point is that I found it pretty useless for marine navigation. Just my experiences with Mac. Went back to windows.

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by SV Tom Crean

Hmm. Let’s compare apples with apples (bad pun). A $1,500 windows laptop will last just as long as a $1,500 MacBook. They are using virtually the same components. There is no Apple magic at play.

A cheap $300 laptop is a different matter but as you say, you can go through 3 or 4 of these and still come out cheaper than a $1,500 anything.

With more waste as you toss the old ones
Yes yes recycle but please recall it’s reduce reuse recycle with recycle being the poor step child

[ChrisJHC]

Originally Posted by cottonsail

Maybe I'm missing something here or my pure lack of knowledge. I bought a new Mac air pro for $2700. With great disappointment I then found out it cannot recognize any GPS input. Possibly I was misinformed by Mac tech support, but I could never get any kind of GPS info to display. Additionally, after about 1 1/2 years of ownership the screen stopped displaying if I opened the screen to a normal position. I could only open it too about 40% without it shutting off. Apple wanted a stupid amount of money for the repair. It now resides in the garage. The point is that I found it pretty useless for marine navigation. Just my experiences with Mac. Went back to windows.

I’m not aware that any Macs come with native GPS.

I’ve had no issues connecting an external GPS with USB via an adapter.

[SV Tom Crean]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

With more waste as you toss the old ones
Yes yes recycle but please recall it’s reduce reuse recycle with recycle being the poor step child

Hey agreed. I’m still rocking my 3 year old Dell XPS which still runs great and only sips 20W plus I still have my 2017 MacBook which I’ve no reason to upgrade either.

I will only upgrade when they die.

[Flobble]

Originally Posted by TonyNA

<snip> I just upgraded to a dedicated boat computer that's a Mac Mini M1 and just love it. The HUGE advantage of the M1 processor is not just speed but far less power consumption. The M1 chips are more akin to mobile device processors where speed and low power consumption is important.

Did you measure the power consumption of the system? I had assumed (perhaps wrongly) that a laptop based system would likely have a lower consumption, so I'm curious what you found in reality?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Flobble

Did you measure the power consumption of the system? I had assumed (perhaps wrongly) that a laptop based system would likely have a lower consumption, so I'm curious what you found in reality?

Laptops indeed often have lower voltage and lower power chipsets than desktops. Intel and others make lower power versions of different processors.

The Apple M1 chip is one of these very low power consumption ones. It's supposed to use only 7 watts at idle.

Many minicomputers use the laptop type of chipsets. The Intel Atom based processors are particularly economical. I'm using a GTek minicomputer with a Jasper Lake Pentium processor with 4 cores. It's very powerful but only uses 6 watts. And it's powered by PD, so a snap to organize a DC powered power supply, using a standard USB Type C power cable.

[Kiwi.]

Originally Posted by sailor4life7777

Hi guys, how long do macs and PCs last in a marine environment onboard a cruising boat? I would imagine given the build quality of macs that they would last much longer than PCS in a marine environment, but does anyone have real world experience with the 2?

Very brave question, almost like asking the "two hulls or one?" question (or if I can betray my age) the blond or black haired question.
My HP PC Elitebook has performed equally with my wife's Apple Mac but remember they are both over $2k products. Apple does not make $500 notebooks (HP does) and I wouldn't expect a $500 notebook PC to last like the Apple product or the HP Elitebook does.
My computer product of choice in the marine environment has become the basic Intel NUC (not the gaming monster, the inexpensive one). Tiny, easily driven off the DC, no moving parts, no fan, no spinning hard drive, and easy connection to screens.

[TonyNA]

Originally Posted by Flobble

Did you measure the power consumption of the system? I had assumed (perhaps wrongly) that a laptop based system would likely have a lower consumption, so I'm curious what you found in reality?

Anecdotally, its less as I can keep up with solar and both fridge and freezer going with computer on all of the time. When the old MacBook was running 24/7 we never reached full charge unless used our engine driven alternator.

Here is a comparison I found on internet:

"The beefed-up 2020 Mac Mini M1 consumes 39W under high load, whereas the beefed-up 2018 Mac Mini with a six-core Intel Core i7 inside can pull 122W of power under load. At idle, a 2020 Mac Mini [M1] sucks 7W, whereas its predecessor devours 20W of power..."

PS...To me the MacBooks are overpriced but the Mac mini M1 is a killer deal (800 to 900 USD) if you already have a screen, keyboard and mouse and a source of clean AC power. Also no pesky LiPo batteries to fail and fill the landfill.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by TonyNA

Anecdotally, its less as I can keep up with solar and both fridge and freezer going with computer on all of the time. When the old MacBook was running 24/7 we never reached full charge unless used our engine driven alternator.

Here is a comparison I found on internet:

"The beefed-up 2020 Mac Mini M1 consumes 39W under high load, whereas the beefed-up 2018 Mac Mini with a six-core Intel Core i7 inside can pull 122W of power under load. At idle, a 2020 Mac Mini [M1] sucks 7W, whereas its predecessor devours 20W of power..."

The Mac Mini M1 sets the standard for boat computers; nothing equals it. It’s a shame that people consider sentiments instead of factual performance. Selection of display isn’t as easy.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The Mac Mini M1 sets the standard for boat computers; nothing equals it. It’s a shame that people consider sentiments instead of factual performance. Selection of display isn’t as easy.

Very cool hardware!

But it's not "sentiments" that everyone has his own way of working which by now is deeply ingrained. You are an Apple guy and would never consider a PC, because you don't work that way. Even if there were some huge breakthrough in PC hardware. Am I right?

I have a reasonable amount of experience with Apple computers going back to the 80's. I don't like them. I work in a different way; interact with the machine in a different way. I would never consider something like the M1 for my boat.

I have experience also with Unix going back to the 70's. I like it. I always liked it and actually hated GUIs and mice for a long time when they came out. Linux is the logical right platform for a boat computer (maximum control, minimal weight, maximum stability, no furtive groping for an internet connection, no bloatware) but even still -- although I have Mint or something as dual boot on my boat computer, I'm using Win11, as I use that every day and all day for my work and other computer usage and it's so much easier to keep using the same platform with the same keyboard shortcuts, same menus, etc. etc.

That's not "sentiment"; that's just work flow and methods.

By the way, one big drawback of the M1 for boat use is the internal power supply. Are you inverting power up to 230v to feed it? So it doesn't work unless you have an inverter on? Or maybe dedicated inverter?

Another drawback of the M1 for my usage is the single HDMI port. I keep two monitors connected.

I'm using a Chinese minicomputer (actually amazingly tiny nanocomputer) with 4-core Jasper Lake chipset which uses only 6 watts at idle, and is blazing fast. It's powered via a USB C port and PD. I have a hard wired USB C outlet with PD behind my nav table, wired to boat DC system. No inverter, nothing. I'm very happy with this -- costs half of the M1, and is way more powerful than I need for boat nav work, fantastic graphics driving the 4k monitor at my nav table. The M1 is faster, but more power is not needed for my use case.

To each his own!

[goboatingnow]

I can see no requirement for an M1 processor on a boat with current nautical software. For your own personal use things may be different.

I’m a believer in duplicate redundant systems built from cheaper systems not all eggs in one M1 basket

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I can see no requirement for an M1 processor on a boat with current nautical software. For your own personal use things may be different.

I’m a believer in duplicate redundant systems built from cheaper systems not all eggs in one M1 basket

Redundancy is good, but I think your ordinary laptop is plenty of redundancy, if you load charts and nav software onto it. I do have my retired old boat computer on board too, so I guess that's double redundancy. I don't think keeping two identical current boat computers makes any sense. Total failures are pretty rare.



Another question is whether you use your boat computer for general computing. Some do, but I think this is a bad idea. I use my laptop for work and general computing, and boat computer for navigation, weather, and media only. And media only because the boat computer is hard wired to sound system and bulkhead monitor, so it's just convenient.