Marina shore power issue - breaker triggers and A/C protection

[Piscis]

Looks like the issue is solved.... at least the issue of the breaker for the charger.

I realized the 10A breaker for the charger did only trip when the sun was shining. Couple of days no sun... no tripping breaker. Sun came back, breaker tripped.

Disconnected the Solar charge controller from the system, and since then (more than 2 weeks) no more issues with the breaker.

It is a Victron SCC010020110 Solar controller. I dont know how it can effect the breaker for the battery charger controller. Maybe it got damaged internally from the lightning? However, Solar charging worked without any issues after the lightning.

Solar controller and Quick battery charger have been installed on the boat at the factory when the vessel was build.

MMmmhhh...

[Piscis]

Originally Posted by kubota

does the charge breaker only go when air con is powered?

2 shore cords or one with dual terminals?

what model inverter.

i have seen wiring issues with 230 and 110 system crossovers blowing the lowest breaker in system especially with start loads of air con.

if your inverter is not a permanent install type,
it can bleed hi voltage back through common neutral and inv grnd to dc neg. long story. ill explain if your inverter model is not appropriate. that would certainly tie in the bat chrgr breaker.

and lastly, did you check polarity of all shore cords to grnd and to each other with good voltmeter (harbor freight doesnt count).

seen all of the above trip seemingly unrelated breakers.

electrical ghosts are the best.
we should have a thread for swapping ghost stories.

Thanks!

Breaker issue of the charger is not related to AC.

Poblem was as well not related to inverter. Looks like the Victron Solar controller did cause the breaker to trigger...

At least the issue stopped after i disconnected the Victron Solar controller...

John

[Piscis]

Today i ran the engines the first time for a long time.... and bang... the breaker triggered again.

So now we have a different idea of what might cause the problem...

just emailed to Quick again...

We came up with a new possible reason for the issue. It looks like everytime when there is an additional DC power supply into the vessels DC System (for example when the solar controler is connected or/and when the engines are running and the alternators are charging into the DC system, the 10A breaker fuse triggers.
When there is no additional DC power and i have the boat only connected to shore power, the breaker never triggers...

So we guess there might be an internal problem with the charger that lets the DC current into the AC power supply and this triggering the breaker. There might be damaged internal diodes that would normaly avoid the current to flow into the AC power supply.

Agree?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Piscis

Today i ran the engines the first time for a long time.... and bang... the breaker triggered again.

So now we have a different idea of what might cause the problem...

just emailed to Quick again...

We came up with a new possible reason for the issue. It looks like everytime when there is an additional DC power supply into the vessels DC System (for example when the solar controler is connected or/and when the engines are running and the alternators are charging into the DC system, the 10A breaker fuse triggers.
When there is no additional DC power and i have the boat only connected to shore power, the breaker never triggers...

So we guess there might be an internal problem with the charger that lets the DC current into the AC power supply and this triggering the breaker. There might be damaged internal diodes that would normaly avoid the current to flow into the AC power supply.

Agree?

No, I expect a much more serious wiring problem. You need to trace every AC wire and every device connected to it and put it all in a diagram.

For a test though, with everything powered off, disconnect the DC leads to the charger and try again. If nothing happens, then only connect the DC negative to the charger and try again.

I think you will have a jumper from shore power ground to DC negative remove that and try again.

[Piscis]

Thanks! I will do the testing tomorrow...

Couple of pics inside the Charger. Just see that there seems to be a crack on one of the Interference Suppression Capacitors...

All the 35A fuses inside the charger have been damaged by the lightning. replaced them all a couple of month ago.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Piscis

Thanks! I will do the testing tomorrow...

Couple of pics inside the Charger. Just see that there seems to be a crack on one of the Interference Suppression Capacitors...

All the 35A fuses inside the charger have been damaged by the lightning. replaced them all a couple of month ago.

Ohh… I did not realize that your charger was damaged during a lightning strike or that you had attempted repair. I don’t think this was clear at all!

So I am changing my recommendation: replace the charger, it did not survive the lightning strike. Replacing fuses isn’t a cure, not that capacitor. Damage can be anywhere.

When the charger is replaced and the breaker still triggers, then also replace that breaker (assuming only the charger is connected to the breaker)

[more]

Originally Posted by Piscis

Looks like the issue is solved.... at least the issue of the breaker for the charger.

I realized the 10A breaker for the charger did only trip when the sun was shining. Couple of days no sun... no tripping breaker. Sun came back, breaker tripped.

Disconnected the Solar charge controller from the system, and since then (more than 2 weeks) no more issues with the breaker.

It is a Victron SCC010020110 Solar controller. I dont know how it can effect the breaker for the battery charger controller. Maybe it got damaged internally from the lightning? However, Solar charging worked without any issues after the lightning.

Solar controller and Quick battery charger have been installed on the boat at the factory when the vessel was build.

MMmmhhh...

am sorry have 2017 Leopard 40 350-450000€ valid boat and have crap Victron PWM solar charger 20-30€ cost and **** outback charger.

First pul up this boath charger and put in garbage and buy
proper solar controler
SmartSolar MPPT 75/10, 75/15 +- 100€
and if dont have money Blue Smart IP22 Charger 12/30 or any other victron smart charger.

also all depend how you use charger on generator or marina.

in marina your daily energy demand divide by 12 for example 150 ah daily
12,5 read 15A charger

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by more

am sorry have 2017 Leopard 40 350-450000€ valid boat and have crap Victron PWM solar charger 20-30€ cost and **** outback charger.

First pul up this boath charger and put in garbage and buy
proper solar controler
SmartSolar MPPT 75/10, 75/15 +- 100€
and if dont have money Blue Smart IP22 Charger 12/30 or any other victron smart charger.

also all depend how you use charger on generator or marina.

in marina your daily energy demand divide by 12 for example 150 ah daily
12,5 read 15A charger

I’m wondering if you get new customers from the forum at all

When a Victron charger gets a hit from lightning it’s garbage as well. You don’t have to say it like you do.

[more]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I’m wondering if you get new customers from the forum at all

When a Victron charger gets a hit from lightning it’s garbage as well. You don’t have to say it like you do.

i don't need customer,ussualy my customer is USA citizen. and all like only because i speak only truth and dont have fake smile. this year i dont have lucky 50% my customer coming from EU.(read no tips or week tips)
i don't like Victron i know this dutch from beginning in garage.
but Victron's tilt to the floor is currently the best devices in the world. In the end, they are not as expensive as their products are good. outback is child's play in a large enclosure.

and 1000 time breaker/fuse protecting cable not device. and fuse must be sized by cable need.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You get a permanent fix with attached diagram.

The isolation transformer first makes sure the boat’s metals as well as crew is protected, plus it galvanically isolates shore power from the power you have aboard, suppressing transients etc.

I recommend to install a “whole house surge suppressor” both on the input and output of the transformer, making sure that shore side ground does not connect to ship side ground.

Next is the Multiplus that will assess incoming power and only when it’s good enough will accept it, start charging batteries and pass it on to the outputs.

If shore power is disrupted, the Multiplus OUT1 will continue on inverter uninterrupted, while OUT2 switches off until good power returns.

or ... it could be that the charger is toast. Electrical/electronic problems often show up for months after a strike.

I advise against repeatedly resetting the breaker after it pops, there could be a surprise awaiting.

[Piscis]

Thanks again for all your help and contributions!

I approached both issues. Here is what we finally did:

1. Issue with triggering Battery charger breaker: Took the charger to a smd soldering pro for inspecting the PCB. He repaired already a few other things for me.
His comment after evaluation: "power going into wrong direction!". He found various components damaged from the lightning and was able to repair them. So far the unit is working fine without triggering the 10A fuse breaker since more than a week.
Due to the faulty parts on the PCB, as soon as there was a DC current (solar or engine alternators) exceding 10A that current strayed in the AC supply line of the charger where the breaker is located making him go off...

2. Protection of the 230V Air Condition system: In this part of the world, power outages happening quite often. Electric Installers recommend the installation of a Compressor Protector in the power supply line of e.g. refrigerators or other compressor running systems, filtering out spikes and in case of power outage, protecting the electronics and compressor. We are using such a unit on or fridge in the house.
I decided to install two units, one for each A/C, on our boat. The units are rated 16A, Max 3500W, which is sufficient for one AC.
Intercepted the regular AC power supply line for the AC at the main distribution panel.

Thanks again for all your help and advice!

John

[Piscis]

Originally Posted by more

am sorry have 2017 Leopard 40 350-450000€ valid boat and have crap Victron PWM solar charger 20-30€ cost and **** outback charger.

First pul up this boath charger and put in garbage and buy
proper solar controler
SmartSolar MPPT 75/10, 75/15 +- 100€
and if dont have money Blue Smart IP22 Charger 12/30 or any other victron smart charger.

also all depend how you use charger on generator or marina.

in marina your daily energy demand divide by 12 for example 150 ah daily
12,5 read 15A charger

Oh, you dont have to feel sorry... ;-)

Before i bought the vessel, i had BIG ideas of upgrades. LIFEPO, multi thousand $$ Inverter/charger/yadayada systems... All kind of stuff all new boat owners are dreaming about...

Well, after our first lightning strike, i changed my mind.... a bit.

Keep it simple. If it is simple already and get fried by lightning, buy simple again... I am sure that the BMSs of LIFEPOs would have been fried and most of the drop in units have intigrated BMS. So instead of having a 15.000US$ bill, we might talk about 50.000US$.

I will stay with my "cheap" QUICK 1300US$ charger... repaired for a couple US$$...

John.

[ttex]

I, personally, would not feel comfortable with a charger on my boat that has been "repaired" after a lightning strike has damaged the components.

[Piscis]

Originally Posted by ttex

I, personally, would not feel comfortable with a charger on my boat that has been "repaired" after a lightning strike has damaged the components.

Both, my girlfriend and i were on the vessel when we got hit by lightning. Since that day, she is reacting and behaves a bit different and strange than before... well, i decided not to replace her. Instead we are working it out... LOL

I am glad she is doing the same...

John