Navionics Subscription

[APWTryfan]

Hello,

I just received renewal notice for Navionics - $US 24.99 for phone app and $US 79.99 for GPS Plotter Card (I have Raymarine Element S7).

I learned that without the new GPS Plotter Card, functionality on the chart plotter (maps) is disabled such as autorouting, live sonar chart and other "advanced" features - which I'm not very happy about.

I can see paying an annual fee to update the actual charts but disabling functionality seems a bit much. Is this just the way things are now and should I suck it up? Are there other options (outside of getting a new chart plotter)?

Thanks!

Andy

[Oeanda]

The charts do remain useable, but having options removed after a year is annoying. This has always been the Navionics way, at least in the last 10- 12 years that I’ve been using it. I find it obnoxious.

But, considering that the annual cost is actually tiny compared to most of my other boat expenses, it must be mainly an attitude problem. Theirs or mine, I’m not sure which. Probably both.

This year I didn’t renew the app (yet) and am trying iSailor instead.

[ItDepends]

Sure there is an option, use old charts and don’t use autorouting.

For me I wishI could buy the chart updates alone and toss autorouting in the bin—where it belongs.

As for iSailor, I have used it for years, and have been very happy with it happily paying the subscription fees to keep everything current—until this year when the chart subscriptions went up by about 10X. Yes, TEN times. I had been paying about 100 for subscriptions for the USA east coast, bahanas and Caribbean. The same charts set is now suddenly over $1000.

I feel like I am getting screwed no so much by the chart publisher, but by all the people using the data without paying for in an ongoing basis screwing up the business model.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by ItDepends

Sure there is an option, use old charts and don’t use autorouting.

For me I wishI could buy the chart updates alone and toss autorouting in the bin—where it belongs.

As for iSailor, I have used it for years, and have been very happy with it happily paying the subscription fees to keep everything current—until this year when the chart subscriptions went up by about 10X. Yes, TEN times. I had been paying about 100 for subscriptions for the USA east coast, bahanas and Caribbean. The same charts set is now suddenly over $1000.

I feel like I am getting screwed no so much by the chart publisher, but by all the people using the data without paying for in an ongoing basis screwing up the business model.

WOW - guess I will cross iSailor off the future consideration list

[Oeanda]

I bought the iSailor app a month or two ago and it was about $30 Canadian if I remember right. I think/hope they don’t actual limit the functionality after your annual sub runs out, the way Navionics does. (?)

I can handle charts not being updated annually. They rarely ever change in my usual zone anyway.

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by APWTryfan

...I can see paying an annual fee to update the actual charts but disabling functionality seems a bit much. Is this just the way things are now and should I suck it up? Are there other options (outside of getting a new chart plotter)?...

The fee isn't just chart updates, the charge also covers continuous development of the software itself. It's been common practice forever in the software industry to reduce or even completely disable software's functionality if the user doesn't pay the annual charge.

Microsoft use an alternative system, you buy a never ending licence, but that doesn't include any upgrades. I can't even count the number of times I've had to rebuy the Microsoft products.

Note to self: check out what Navionics Auto Routing is and how it works.

[sailingharry]

For that price, consider yourself lucky! I have a Furuno NavNet, and the only supported charts are C-Map (actually, it's not entirely fair, in the United States they provide free versions of the NOAA charts. But since we are in Canada, that doesn't work.). My C-Map chart of the east coast of North America is about $500. If I want the update next year, it's about $500. And the detail presented on my chartplotter is about 10% of what my $25 Navionics subscription gives me on my Android phone.

More and more, I'm finding that I use the C-Map data on my chart plotter for long-range planning and the Navionics on the smartphone in my hand to avoid shoals and enter harbours.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by grantmc

The fee isn't just chart updates, the charge also covers continuous development of the software itself. It's been common practice forever in the software industry to reduce or even completely disable software's functionality if the user doesn't pay the annual charge.



Microsoft use an alternative system, you buy a never ending licence, but that doesn't include any upgrades. I can't even count the number of times I've had to rebuy the Microsoft products.



Note to self: check out what Navionics Auto Routing is and how it works.

So, just wondering, what Microsoft products did you keep buying?

Switched to Libre Office from MS office few years ago, does the job and is free.
Switched from Outlook to Thunderbird few years ago, just as good.

Same regarding Photo Editing, switched from Adobe to Affinity suite, does all I could ask for on a professional level, 55€ for each package, one time.

Nav package OpenCPN free and does a great job, developing community very accessible and helpful.
Debateably one can argue for a dedicated chart plotter, but 30 years ago everyone sailed happily without one...

Regarding charts, in most of the world there is really no need to update the complete catalog each year.

Buy a set and buy a new one few years later. Avoid anyone forcing subscriptions onto you.
There are in most cases other chart sources available. If not, learn to use SASplanet to create your own set.

Microsoft still gives windows away for free, thank you, happy to use it. If they force mandatory online user accounts I switch to Linux. So far they don't force these unless you fall for their attempts to do so.

[Mike OReilly]

I just went around the circle on which app & chart system to buy into for my iPad. After a bit of research, including getting advice from the crowd brain here, I went with TZ iBoat. Unfortunately, once I bought the charts, I learned their C-map charts where woefully inadequate for my cruising ground (Newfoundland).

It was pretty clear their vector charts were only based on the large scale (small detail) charts. In comparison, the equivalent Navionics charts were way more detailed. So, I bought a Navionics subscription as well, and have been quite happy with it so far.

In my research I learned that everyone has gone to this annual subscription model for chart updates and some functionality. But only Aqua Maps disables the charts you've already downloaded. All the rest let you keep what you have, and maintain basic functionality in the app.

TZ, or perhaps C-map, said they would address my concerns. But when I asked for a timeline, I was given no clear answer. I assume it comes down to money, since they must have to license the chart data from Canada Hydrographic Services. Unlike the USA, Canada's approach is far less enlightened. They charge dearly for charts up here.

[sailingharry]

Mike,

I feel your pain on the C-Map, as that is exactly what I am experiencing. When I bought my charts I had a choice of C-map or Navionics, and the C-Map pricing was much more attractive. Unfortunately I can see why now!

But a word of caution. Not sure if TZ owns Furuno, Furuno owns TZ, or if they are just in bed together. But I know the relationship is very close. My Furuno system, which uses charts sourced from TimeZero, no longer has a Navionics option. Existing charts will continue to work, but no further purchases can be made.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

I feel your pain on the C-Map, as that is exactly what I am experiencing. When I bought my charts I had a choice of C-map or Navionics, and the C-Map pricing was much more attractive. Unfortunately I can see why now!

Yes, the TZ (C-map) charts were cheaper, although the Navionics package covers a greater area. In both cases the price was pretty cheap compared to what you get. If TZ actually gave me what it promised (all the charts for my area, instead of just the large-scale views), I'd have been very happy. I like the functionality of the app, and especially how it does offline weather. But without detailed charts, it's pretty useless to me.

Originally Posted by sailingharry

But a word of caution. Not sure if TZ owns Furuno, Furuno owns TZ, or if they are just in bed together. But I know the relationship is very close. My Furuno system, which uses charts sourced from TimeZero, no longer has a Navionics option. Existing charts will continue to work, but no further purchases can be made.

Yes, I knew about the connection. But to be clear, I ended up using Navionic's own app, Navionics Boating, to acquire their charts. But I went through a similar widrawl of service when I was using iNavx and Navionics. I assume it's a Garmin thing...

[sailingharry]

Two pictures to show a recent example. This is Trois Riviera, a significant stopping point on the St Lawrence River in eastern Canada. We draw 7 ft.

The sketchy picture is our $500 C-Map charts loaded on our mega pricey Furuno chartplotter (to be fair, it is probably over a decade old). It shows our track and our anchorage point. The darker blue is the 6-ft line, and there is not a single sounding in the entire area. No, changing zooms does not change the presentation.

The detailed chart is a screenshot of my $25 Navionics subscription on my cell phone. The depths that we observed agree closely with the Navionics depths (we anchored in 15 ft of water).

So the questions.
* Are C-Map charts universally worthless?
* Did I buy the wrong chart package? This is the mega wide option that covers everything from the far north of Labrador down into the Caribbean.
* Have they been dumbed down to work on an obsolete piece of equipment?
* Is the operator not properly configuring his equipment?

[SV Tom Crean]

It’s not the equipment (the plotter). Use the c-map chart explorer and browse that location and you get more or less the same result. The newer plotters can support new charts but the details are not that different.

C-map is fine in most places I’ve checked , although compared with Navionics it’s poor. Just lacking in a lot of detail. I have a plotter with c-map and my iPad with Navionics mounted beside it - that way I can compare the two and along with my eyeballs, make a judgement call.

[Harryj50]

Originally Posted by SV Tom Crean

C-map is fine in most places I’ve checked , although compared with Navionics it’s poor. Just lacking in a lot of detail. I have a plotter with c-map and my iPad with Navionics mounted beside it - that way I can compare the two and along with my eyeballs, make a judgement call.

I do the same thing. C-Map on a Furuno chartplotter was good from Canada to the border with the US and bit further south (west coast). Once in Mexico it lacks important detail and chart offset on the Furuno needs to be checked regularly going from one quilt seam to another. Navionics has loads of detail but its a bit of a pain having to download the bits of chart necessary before heading into water that does not have cell coverage.

I'm hoping that our aging iPad doesn't run into the problem of needing a iOS update that won't work on it and the Navionics app stops working.

[SV Tom Crean]

Originally Posted by Harryj50

I do the same thing. C-Map on a Furuno chartplotter was good from Canada to the border with the US and bit further south (west coast). Once in Mexico it lacks important detail and chart offset on the Furuno needs to be checked regularly going from one quilt seam to another. Navionics has loads of detail but its a bit of a pain having to download the bits of chart necessary before heading into water that does not have cell coverage.

I'm hoping that our aging iPad doesn't run into the problem of needing a iOS update that won't work on it and the Navionics app stops working.

I spoiled myself by getting a new iPad Air with lots of storage to use for Navionics, PredictWind, gurumaps - the “older” ipad (last years entry model) is now used for media playing, Victron and everything else. Also acts a backup to the new iPad.

I think using Navionics with its better coverage plus the community edits, along with the fixed plotter makes a lot of sense.