Need help with a WH autopilot

[skipmac]

Hello. Have an old WH given to me several years ago by a forum member (thank you whoever you are, it's been so long I can't remember who you were) and finally getting around to setting it up BUT have a couple of mysteries that aren't covered in the manuals.

First, the PHC (pilot house control) which has all the course control, on/off, etc buttons. As shown in the manual there are three connectors on the PHC going to:

1. the remote control
2. the compass through a intermediate connection box.
3. the Junction Box, which feeds power to the PHC and also connects to rudder angle sensor.

Here's the BUT. In addition to the above, all shown in the manual, There is an unmarked cable coming out of the bottom of the PHC about 25' long that has 9 small wires and no connector on the end. I don't see any other box with the AP that has an unused terminal strip nor an unused connector socket in case there was a plug cut off this wire.

There are terminal strips with a couple of unused connections but their functions don't seem to relate to this mystery cable. Anyone have any idea what this is? My only guesses are some kind of modification added that might go to a second PHC or maybe NMEA0183?

Second there is a black box labeled Model VD-1 that is also not shown on any of the docs I have. It's about 2x3x5" with a five connection terminal strip on one end. The connections are labeled

1. Turn on
2. SOL
3. SOL
4. Ground
5. 12v

There is a wire connected to 4 and 5 that looks like it was attached to the 12v power connections of the main AP junction box which supplies power to the PHC and also connects to the rudder angle sensor. However other that SOL meaning S**t Outta Luck I have no guess on the other three connections.

In the manual there is a box labeled "ON/OFF Valve" connected inline with the +12v supply to that same junction box. Now if I recall, valve is Brit speak for a vacuum tube and maybe a transistor. The VD-1 box does have a protrusion on one end that is shaped like a large power transistor. So I'm guessing the VD-1 box might be the "ON/OFF Valve" but how is it wired in?

Hopefully the descriptions will be adequate but I can cobble up some photos if necessary.

[Brian.D]

The "valve" you are talking about, I am sure, has nothing to do with tubes, and transistors were called transistors. It is possible that this is referring to hydraulic steering valves. Physical valves that open and close to control other steering functions.

The other cable with 9 wires sounds like a serial cable, you know, 9-pin connector for RS232 or RS485 datalines for other equipment used in the system.

Useless info, sorry can't be of more assistance.

[Nord Sal]

What model is it?

I have an old W-H Autopilot (model P-3) that came on my boat which supposedly didn't work. I got it to work by realizing that the rudder (and thus AP sensor) had been r+r'd and the sensor could've been mis-installed (it was) and then later taking the cover off of the PHC box and viola! there were the yellow, green and purple adjustment pots referred to in my manual (newer P-3A model with external pots). I'm not saying these pots are your problem, but what I did see was that the terminals were very-nicely labeled and so was (at least some of) the PCB. If no one is able to answer, you might find your unmarked cable to have some identifiers inside the box.

You didn't mention a rudder position indicator or motor controller for the pump. Mine MC is hooked up through the J-box. Could yours be direct from the PHC?

I can only think of a second station or NMEA input (wind?) for that length of cable.

No idea on the VD-1 box.

My unit is working nicely now. The inside of the enclosure has a handwritten note reading: "Passed 3/84. W.H.". Pretty good for a 36 yo piece of electronics.

Good luck. Perhaps the donor will recognize this and chime in.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Brian.D

The "valve" you are talking about, I am sure, has nothing to do with tubes, and transistors were called transistors. It is possible that this is referring to hydraulic steering valves. Physical valves that open and close to control other steering functions.

The other cable with 9 wires sounds like a serial cable, you know, 9-pin connector for RS232 or RS485 datalines for other equipment used in the system.

Useless info, sorry can't be of more assistance.

OK, on yet another reading of the manual the valve is indeed a hydraulic control valve. Have to say it didn't make sense for a US company to use British terminology but I was stumped (clearly). The wiring diagram threw me a little because it shows the valve wired in the + 12v DC power to the PHC. After a little thought I'm thinking that the 12V goes to a coil in a solenoid operated hydraulic valve. When you turn the power on at the PHC you get current through the wire which activates the solenoid and the valve.

The mystery wire I also think is some kind of connection. Didn't think about RS232 (is that still used in anything?) but this is a 30-40 year old bit of gear.

The PO I'm pretty sure used this with an electric motor drive and not a hydraulic system. There is a motor control unit that connects directly to the battery with high amp output directly to the AP drive motor. However I don't see anything that would be a clutch control for the AP. I'm wondering if the VD-1 has something to do with that?

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Nord Sal

What model is it?

I have an old W-H Autopilot (model P-3) that came on my boat which supposedly didn't work. I got it to work by realizing that the rudder (and thus AP sensor) had been r+r'd and the sensor could've been mis-installed (it was) and then later taking the cover off of the PHC box and viola! there were the yellow, green and purple adjustment pots referred to in my manual (newer P-3A model with external pots). I'm not saying these pots are your problem, but what I did see was that the terminals were very-nicely labeled and so was (at least some of) the PCB. If no one is able to answer, you might find your unmarked cable to have some identifiers inside the box.

You didn't mention a rudder position indicator or motor controller for the pump. Mine MC is hooked up through the J-box. Could yours be direct from the PHC?

I can only think of a second station or NMEA input (wind?) for that length of cable.

No idea on the VD-1 box.

My unit is working nicely now. The inside of the enclosure has a handwritten note reading: "Passed 3/84. W.H.". Pretty good for a 36 yo piece of electronics.

Good luck. Perhaps the donor will recognize this and chime in.

Model is a P-3A which from your comment seems to be the same as the P-3 but with external control pots (which it has).

Didn't mention these since their connections seem obvious but I do have the Rudder Angle Sensor (but no indicator) and the motor control box which in modern APs they call the brain. That always confused me as I saw it as the power output to the drive but guess it has the brain in it as well.

Time to get serious. Was hoping for an easy answer but guess it's time to post a diagram.

[s/v Jedi]

We also had a remote control attached to it, incl. a knob to manually turn the rudder

[skipmac]

OK, wiring diagram attached. Mostly self explanatory I think but to make sure.

PHC - Pilot House Control. This has the On/Off switch, AP/Standby, Course set, yaw control, etc. Has inputs from the compass and remote control. Has a cable to the Junction box that is an in/out sending AP control information through the JB to the Motor Control and getting 12V power in from the JB.

Motor Control - this is the brain AND power out to the drive motor so has large gauge connections to motor and the battery.

Compass Electronics Box - converts output from the compass to an electronic signal to feed into the signal to the PHC.

Junction Box - Inputs from the PHC, rudder angle sensor and separate 12V power to the electronics part of the AP. Output to the Motor Control (aka brain). In addition to the cables with plugs connecting to the Motor Control and PHC there is a five place terminal strip. Three terminals connect to the cable going to the rudder angle sensor. The other two are marked 12VDC input + and -.

On the 12V terminals there are two cut wires on each lug. One based on the manual went to the battery to supply power to the electronics of the AP. The other match two cut wires coming off the last box, the VD-1 which has five terminals. The two with wires are marked Ground and 12V and must have gone to the second pair of cut off wires on the Junction Box.

The complete mystery are the other three terminals on the VD-1 marked Turn On, SOL and SOL.

My best guess, the VD-1 might have been the control to the drive motor clutch. There is no other cable, terminal or connection anywhere on any other box that could perform that function. But if so, the VD-1 would have to get some kind of control signal from the PHC to engage and disengage the clutch as the PHC switches the AP from Standby to active AP mode.

So any guesses?

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

We also had a remote control attached to it, incl. a knob to manually turn the rudder

The remote with this one just has buttons, no rotating knob. Has buttons for Dodge port and stbd, a two-way momentary toggle for course change and buttons for Standby and AP mode.

So did yours drive an electric or hydraulic? If electric how was the motor clutch controlled?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by skipmac

OK, wiring diagram attached. Mostly self explanatory I think but to make sure.

PHC - Pilot House Control. This has the On/Off switch, AP/Standby, Course set, yaw control, etc. Has inputs from the compass and remote control. Has a cable to the Junction box that is an in/out sending AP control information through the JB to the Motor Control and getting 12V power in from the JB.

Motor Control - this is the brain AND power out to the drive motor so has large gauge connections to motor and the battery.

Compass Electronics Box - converts output from the compass to an electronic signal to feed into the signal to the PHC.

Junction Box - Inputs from the PHC, rudder angle sensor and separate 12V power to the electronics part of the AP. Output to the Motor Control (aka brain). In addition to the cables with plugs connecting to the Motor Control and PHC there is a five place terminal strip. Three terminals connect to the cable going to the rudder angle sensor. The other two are marked 12VDC input + and -.

On the 12V terminals there are two cut wires on each lug. One based on the manual went to the battery to supply power to the electronics of the AP. The other match two cut wires coming off the last box, the VD-1 which has five terminals. The two with wires are marked Ground and 12V and must have gone to the second pair of cut off wires on the Junction Box.

The complete mystery are the other three terminals on the VD-1 marked Turn On, SOL and SOL.

My best guess, the VD-1 might have been the control to the drive motor clutch. There is no other cable, terminal or connection anywhere on any other box that could perform that function. But if so, the VD-1 would have to get some kind of control signal from the PHC to engage and disengage the clutch as the PHC switches the AP from Standby to active AP mode.

So any guesses?

The two wires labeled “SOL” should control the solenoid which, when open, bypasses the hydraulic pumps of the autopilot, allowing manual wheel steering.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The two wires labeled “SOL” should control the solenoid which, when open, bypasses the hydraulic pumps of the autopilot, allowing manual wheel steering.

I have an electric linear drive with a clutch as did the PO that I got the AP from. However I think the same output would operate a magnetic clutch circuit as well as a hydraulic solenoid.

So power in at two terminals. Output to a solenoid (either for a clutch or hydraulic valve) from the two terminals labeled SOL so the last terminal labeled "Turn On" must enable output to the SOL when it sees a voltage. So that begs the question, where does the "Turn On" connect?

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The two wires labeled “SOL” should control the solenoid which, when open, bypasses the hydraulic pumps of the autopilot, allowing manual wheel steering.

The wiring diagram for the AP shows a hydraulic solenoid wired into the positive voltage supply to the AP controller. I would think that would keep the hydraulic solenoid activated anytime there's power to the controller. I wouldn't think the power would shut down to the controller when it's switched into standby mode. So the steering wouldn't be released.

Is it possible that the controller draws more current when in AP steering mode and when switched to standby the current is too low to activate the solenoid?

[skipmac]

Did a test and think I've figured out the VD-1 box. Pretty obvious in retrospect. Connect power to the 12V and ground (duh). Checked all the other terminals, nothing.

Apply 12V to the "Turn On" terminal and 12V appears between the two SOL terminals. So seems like when the AP is active steering mode send 12V to the "Turn On", connect the SOL outputs to a the clutch solenoid for the motor et voile, you're in gear.

BUT, where to connect the "Turn On" terminal. Maybe one of the wires in the unused mystery cable puts out 12V when in AP mode. Unless someone chimes in that knows guess I'll have to get a meter and start checking wires.