North Up or Heading Up?

[Jubilee39]

Before chart plotters I had a guest on board trying to "help" me navigate. In the cockpit he was always twisiting the chart to our heading, drove me batty. Always north up

[jordanbigel]

I only read about half the replies in this thread, but it seems to me that the dividing line between the two points of view here come down to whether or not you "came up" using paper charts or not.

For those of us who did, the chart is always read north-up. And a radar displays the world around you in the same orientation as the vessel, that's just how it works (heading up) - so it has always been, so it shall always be.

I am reminded of using maps in cars ("back in the day") you held a paper map in your hands in front of the steering wheel north-up (if you knew how to navigate and were not acting in a movie).There were also books of maps, always north up.

For those who grew up in the digital world, it's just not like that. They don't have that mindset, so they may be free to choose, but gravitate (I think) toward heading-up.

[Brioche]

This turned out to be an interesting discussion. Thinking it over, I realize there is another issue -- "heading up" may mean boat position or, default on some systems, COG. I like COG/heading up when piloting instead of navigating (in other words, using fixed points on land or buoys) because I pretty much see on the chart the same things I see in the water or on the shore. But when there is a lot of leeway, or, in strong tide, my COG doesn't point the same way as the boat, and even spins around when the COG stalls beating upwind against a strong tide. -- So there is another complication as well.

[GrowleyMonster]

Everything that can be set N up, gets set N up. Normally. Once you are used to seeing everything N up, it just makes sense that way.

However, when going up a long narrow channel, river, bayou, etc, then heading up can be more convenient and intuitive, especially if you are both your own pilot and your own helmsman at the same time, usually the case on a recreational vessel, and can see electronic chart display and radar both from the helm. TBH in decent visibility in a channel, I really don't watch the electronics all that much, anyway. Eyes are too busy looking around at the real world. If I do not have local knowledge, I study the chart well, before arrival. I might jot down some notes like significant bouy or marker numbers, ranges, landmarks, or shoals to avoid in the event I need to run outside the channel.

I really hate meeting another boat in a narrow channel and seeing one guy in the cockpit, eyes glued to his magic box as he steers. Another close call!

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

However, when going up a long narrow channel, river, bayou, etc, then heading up can be more convenient and intuitive,

I see it the opposite.
- In open water, I'm probably not turning or if I am, it's not critical to immediately get on the correct course., so course up, while not my preferred setting, should be fine.
- In narrow channels, the spinning effect of the chart can be disorientating, particularly if there is a lag between your turn and the chart plotter updating.

With north up, the course indication line addresses which way I'm headed.

[capt jgw]

Originally Posted by Brioche

River or narrow space, heading up, open water, north.

That's what I do. I grew up using paper charts so North up is more instinctive. But on a river direction is irrelevant and head up makes more sense. Especially if you're going south.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I see it the opposite.
- In open water, I'm probably not turning or if I am, it's not critical to immediately get on the correct course., so course up, while not my preferred setting, should be fine.
- In narrow channels, the spinning effect of the chart can be disorientating, particularly if there is a lag between your turn and the chart plotter updating.

With north up, the course indication line addresses which way I'm headed.

On top of that, if you're not heads-down in the plotter constantly, you have to re-orient things when you look up for a moment and then back down at the plotter. In North up, the only thing that may change is which way the boat arrow is pointing.

[David Mathis]

Although every one I’ve discussed this with over many years has set heading up, the most important factor in your decision is which one provides the greatest level of confidence. A confusing situation can quickly become unsafe.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by StuM

Which implies that you are always "following the course line". Don't you ever have to tack or gybe when going from one waypoint to the next?

of course and when I do the "up" changes with it because the heading is always the heading and my current course

I figure you knew but just for some reason felt like poking me in the eye or something

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

north up in northern hemisphere, south up in southern hemisphere.

[Montanan]

And would that North Up be in reference to the North geographic pole or the North magnetic pole, which by the way is actually the North-Facing pole of a compass needle because the dipole magnetism is the south pole up "north" in the artic and vice a versa down under. Hence, therein lies confusion as to reference directions.

When one is about to run into something, it is useful to yell Heads Up! and never useful to yell, North Up! Just saying.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

Everything that can be set N up, gets set N up. Normally. Once you are used to seeing everything N up, it just makes sense that way.

However, when going up a long narrow channel, river, bayou, etc, then heading up can be more convenient and intuitive, especially if you are both your own pilot and your own helmsman at the same time, usually the case on a recreational vessel, and can see electronic chart display and radar both from the helm.

This is exactly the same answer I would give. I like to have congruence between paper chart (if in use), chart-plotter and radar picture - the heading line makes it easy to remember which way the boat is pointing

[StuM]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

of course and when I do the "up" changes with it because the heading is always the heading and my current course

I figure you knew but just for some reason felt like poking me in the eye or something

We apparently have different definitions of the word "course".
To me a course is a straight line between two points. i.e. course is the line from one waypoint to the next that we would like to follow if the wind permitted.

Heading is the direction the boat is pointing.

When sailing to a point which is dead to wind, your course and heading will be about 45° different and you will constantly have a "cross track error (XTE)" which is the lateral distance between your course and your current position.

Then we have "Course to steer (CTS)" which is the course you would follow from your current position to your next waypoint if the wind permitted. This will also be changing constantly when trying to make an upwind waypoint and will also differ from your heading until you make your final tack/gybe to sail to your waypoint..

Now it appears that you actually use "heading up", not "course up"

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Whatever makes most sense, to you.

Having only sailed with paper charts, I’d personally only use North up.

I also learned to read blueprints, before maps/charts, so acquired the ability to use whichever drawing orientation the draughtsman used [generally oriented to fit the paper], without turning myself & dwg to match the actual building layout.

It’s provides a constant, and not much of a mental challenge. In fact, it’s instinctive/intuitive, with me.

Then you’ll appreciate this
Got a blueprint for some scaffolding
Could not figure out what I was looking at
Finally ahha!
It was drawn from the inside of the frame
All 4 views

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I suspect that those of us who first learned navigation using compass and paper chart/map will be more comfortable with North (or South) up. Those who began navigating in the age of digital charts and chartplotters will likely lean to heading up.

I prefer North up, but I've been on boats where the other standard is used. I find I spend more time staring at the screen when in Heading up mode, but maybe that's because I'm less comfortable with this approach. Both works.

When I first learned it was land and I oriented the map to match reality
So far I maintain that with a plotter when possible