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Old 14-02-2022, 07:49   #181
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Re: Radar is now redundant ?

https://apnews.com/article/technolog...bb0fc5be59d156
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Old 14-02-2022, 07:50   #182
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Re: Radar is now redundant ?

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Originally Posted by BB7 View Post
With a large screen displaying GPS location on a super detailed chart, and AIS streaming from every other vessel, I wonder if Radar is now an outdated and redundant technology?
I have radar, but very rarely use it since the GPS chart is better.
Will soon be speccing up a new boat, and wonder if Radar is worth having.

Thoughts from your experience ?
RADAR gives you a view of what is around you... Land, storms, other boats, structures. GPS shows you where you are at on a chart. AIS shows you the locations of boats who happen to have AIS. They are all different and used for different purposes.

When the weather gets bad and there is reduced visibility, you can't beat radar. It is also an excellent backup for collision avoidance at night. Not everyone has AIS transmitters.

If you only sail in good weather, during the day, with bikini clad women on the bow, then sure, go without RADAR. If you cruise to new locations and are away from shore for prolonged periods in all kinds of weather, give the RADAR some serious respect and learn how to use it.
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Old 14-02-2022, 07:56   #183
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Re: Radar is now redundant ?

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that's great , but its just not good seamanship to close on ports in that situation and no experienced sailor ( or instructor ) would recommend it
Anyone with over 22,000hrs in their log between Duluth MN, Antigua and Honduras is going to get caught occasionally in difficult circumstances no matter how careful they are. Nor would I recommend it to most recreational radar users but my RADAR/ARPA/MARPA certification and 11 week radar course with simulator time makes me quite comfortable with it.

PS. I swear I didn't take my boat where the GPS says I did.
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Old 14-02-2022, 08:04   #184
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Re: Radar is now redundant ?

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Originally Posted by StoneCrab View Post
RADAR gives you a view of what is around you... Land, storms, other boats, structures. GPS shows you where you are at on a chart. AIS shows you the locations of boats who happen to have AIS. They are all different and used for different purposes.

When the weather gets bad and there is reduced visibility, you can't beat radar. It is also an excellent backup for collision avoidance at night. Not everyone has AIS transmitters.

If you only sail in good weather, during the day, with bikini clad women on the bow, then sure, go without RADAR. If you cruise to new locations and are away from shore for prolonged periods in all kinds of weather, give the RADAR some serious respect and learn how to use it.
Absolutely agree with this! It's like saying VHF is redundant with advance of satellite phone technology. I would never sail without radar, and if I had to choose between AIS and radar, I'd choose the latter for all the reasons mentioned.
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Old 14-02-2022, 08:09   #185
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Re: Radar is now redundant ?

As my father used to tell me, (Loran/GPS) tells you where you are, radar tells you who else is there.
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Old 14-02-2022, 08:12   #186
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Re: Radar is now redundant ?

I really think the entire premise of the OP's question is flawed. AIS and radar have overlapping functions, but they are very different tools that do very different things.

Each bring capabilities which the other doesn't, which is why I say have both. But if you must priorities, then radar goes on top since it shows what actually is, not what might be.
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Old 14-02-2022, 08:13   #187
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Re: Radar is now redundant ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB7 View Post
With a large screen displaying GPS location on a super detailed chart, and AIS streaming from every other vessel, I wonder if Radar is now an outdated and redundant technology?
I have radar, but very rarely use it since the GPS chart is better.
Will soon be speccing up a new boat, and wonder if Radar is worth having.

Thoughts from your experience ?
Point by point:
"With a large screen displaying GPS location on a super detailed chart"
We run two chart programs side by side on our 12" MFD. Both are "detailed". They don't always match. I clearly remember sailing across 'land' on one chart and "water" on the other. Both can't be correct. Even if the GPS is 100% perfect, it doesn't mean your chart is.

"and AIS streaming from every other vessel"
AIS isn't streaming from all boats. As mentioned, Navy ships never broadcast. Fishing vessels rarely do. Smaller boats don't. Most sailors and powerboaters aren't broadcasting either. I'd say maybe 25% do and that is in places with money. We even came across a large cargo ship going over 20kts in the middle of the Caribbean with no AIS. We were sailing from Curacao to Antigua directly. Weirdly the same ship came within a few NMs of us twice in 24 hours with it going the opposite direction the second time. It left me confused, so I logged it but never understood it. Our RADAR had not trouble spotting it and tracking it.

"Radar is now an outdated and redundant technology"
Outdated, how do you figure? They keep improving them. Our Halo24 starts within seconds, uses about 15-25watts depending on settings and dual range mode being on or not.

Redundant how? What else can do what RADAR can do?

We have already established that charts aren't 100% accurate, GPS isn't 100% accurate and most boat don't broadcast AIS.

Even if every single boat broadcast AIS is still doesn't nullify the benefits of RADAR.

It seems like people are trying to justify not installing it. Let's be clear, you don't need any of the these things (MFD, Depth Sounders, Speed Log, RADAR, AIS, Wind Sensors, Autopilot). But each one of them serves a purpose and can make sailing more enjoyable and safer!
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Old 14-02-2022, 08:13   #188
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Re: Radar is now redundant ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB7 View Post
With a large screen displaying GPS location on a super detailed chart, and AIS streaming from every other vessel, I wonder if Radar is now an outdated and redundant technology?
I have radar, but very rarely use it since the GPS chart is better.
Will soon be speccing up a new boat, and wonder if Radar is worth having.

Thoughts from your experience ?
BB7 thx for posting this tread. I’m in the same position as you and was wondering about installing a new radar. Having read the replies to your thread I’m certainly will be installing one!
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Old 14-02-2022, 08:14   #189
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Re: Radar is now redundant ?

No way.

A lot of vessels do not use AIS and those that do are still prone to occasional failure. Not e every vessel at anchor uses an anchor light. And there are occasional hazards that do not appear on charts.

I always use radar at night.
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Old 14-02-2022, 08:15   #190
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Re: Radar is now redundant ?

Absolutely not, try coming into a harbor on a foggy night, buoys aren’t always where they are supposed to be, boats at anchor……….but I guess it depends on the boating you do and where you do it.
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Old 14-02-2022, 08:21   #191
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Re: Radar is now redundant ?

Been thinking about this as we have the mast down. Good time to put on a radar antenna. Back in 2006 we sailed my boat back from La Paz MX to San Francisco. The radar stopped working before we left and all I had was a GPS that gave me lat long.
We had a little trouble going into Turtle Bay in dense fog but it made a great story.
On a sailboat gimbled radar mounts don't seem to get good reviews and when it's fixed mounted healing you have very little that it will see. So we are thinking about going without, at least for now. Our six month trip in 2014 we had a new radar, AIS reciever and everything on the computer charts, it did maje things easy. Will have AIS Transponder. What do people have A or B?
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Old 14-02-2022, 08:25   #192
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Re: Radar is now redundant ?

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Will have AIS Transponder. What do people have A or B?
Now that there are the newer Class B-SOTDMA (sometimes marketed as Class B+) there is very little additional benefit of going with a higher cost Class A unit on a low speed sailing yacht unless you want a dedicated display.

For new installs unless you are really pressed for cash Class B-SO is the best bang for the buck. A basic black box unit is around $500 to $800 which isn't much more than a basic B-CS unit.
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Old 14-02-2022, 08:31   #193
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Re: Radar is now redundant ?

There are thousands of boats in coastal areas that do not have AIS, and as was said up thread, there are a lot of commercial fishing boats that turn off their AIS and lights to not be seen, we had a night time near miss with one off the Jersey coast, scary as hell for a few minutes when he appeared fifty yards off our starboard beam, when he decided to turn his lights back on…., So no, radar is not even close to being redundant.

Fair winds,
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Old 14-02-2022, 08:35   #194
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Re: Radar is now redundant ?

I don’t have Radar or AIS,
Well i have all the pieces of an AIS system, so will hopefully have AIS this season.
My thoughts are that AIS being more useful to see and be seen by big vessels, the chances of hitting a small vessel going in the other or across direction is somewhat limited, during darkness and lights help some as well - in the daytime you can see anyway at night you can see just less clearly. and condition dependent.
So for now I don’t intend to introduce Radar
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Old 14-02-2022, 08:42   #195
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Re: Radar is now redundant ?

I’m in the UK, and fewer than 20% of private boats have AIS. Of those that do, only 1/3rd transmit as well as receive, so they’re not showing up on MFD screens. As for radar, very useful approaching an unfamiliar coast in the dark. Modern CHIRP radar such as Raymarine Quantum, draw a lot less current and I’ll be upgrading to that soon.
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