Radar is now redundant ?

[captmikem]

I had just come out of the straights of Canso one foggy December night, had a tow on about half a mile astern. I picked up a few small returns on my radar, close at hand, lookout saw nothing and I went out on the bridge wing to look. I could hear a pod of whales that were blowing in front of me. I went back in the wheelhouse and noticed one larger target a bit farther ahead, thinking was a large whale, I altered a few degrees to stb and stepped out on the bridge wing to watch him go by.
Through the fog in a few minutes I could barely decern some kind of grayish light, in a few seconds I could see a little schooner with the crew shining a flashlight on the sail.

If I had one choice of electronic navigational aid, it would be radar. I have found and fixed my position for years before GPS, AIS is informative, but RADAR tells me what is around me, and that is what is important.

M

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by philiosophy

Going in and out of the Touamotos it's very Important. Collision avoidance in Fog. Many vessels have it turned off. I had Mexican Ferry's that either didn't have it or just turned off twice. A Chinese Factory fishing vessel running illegal Gill Nets was not transmitting AIS. Of course some people go to bed and depend on their alarm to wake them.

Great point. The Chinese fleets in Palau, Solomons, Vanuatu (probably more) use AIS while outside the national fishing zone, then turn it off, run in, launch skiffs, and return, so there's no signature and no record. I'd not be surprised if they operate without lights as well.

[deblen]

Don't need radar? Some obstacles don't have AIS.Some boaters travel after dark.

Cheers/Len

[Hermia II]

What you need to see the best is what's not expected to be there. Barges don't usually have AIS, small boats don't (I cut one in half e few years ago) and you don't se squalls. Better keep your radar. Where I am, if you have one you must use it.

[deblen]

Originally Posted by captmikem

I had just come out of the straights of Canso one foggy December night, had a tow on about half a mile astern. I picked up a few small returns on my radar, close at hand, lookout saw nothing and I went out on the bridge wing to look. I could hear a pod of whales that were blowing in front of me. I went back in the wheelhouse and noticed one larger target a bit farther ahead, thinking was a large whale, I altered a few degrees to stb and stepped out on the bridge wing to watch him go by.
Through the fog in a few minutes I could barely decern some kind of grayish light, in a few seconds I could see a little schooner with the crew shining a flashlight on the sail.

If I had one choice of electronic navigational aid, it would be radar. I have found and fixed my position for years before GPS, AIS is informative, but RADAR tells me what is around me, and that is what is important.

M

++1 Cheers/Len

[Wilyum]

How small of an object can radar pick up, say a small submerged log?

[taxwizz]

Originally Posted by BB7

Fair point re fishing boats, thanks. Rocks are charted adequately, and radar wont find them anyway. When you are sailing at night do you rely on the radar?

Did a 200 + foot yacht not strike an unseen rock and suffer severe damage in Alaska last week? Charts are not perfect. (Although radar would not have spotted it either)

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

In my travels, there are far more boats out there without AIS than with. Maybe if you're only in rich, urban areas, it might make sense to ditch the radar. Not so in most of the rest of the world.

Besides, AIS doesn't see through fog. It can't track storm cells or fronts. It doesn't show most nav. aids.

And on top of that, I would never rely solely on a chart plotter to know where you are. A chart plotter is a projection of your location that is at least twice removed from reality. It's a great tool, as is AIS, but everyone should understand their limitations.

I find the overlay function in my Raymarine MFD, where I can have the radar confirming the chart display, a fantastic capability which allows me to enter and depart anchorages in the dark with far greater confidence than with chart alone.

[guyrj33]

Originally Posted by BB7

With a large screen displaying GPS location on a super detailed chart, and AIS streaming from every other vessel, I wonder if Radar is now an outdated and redundant technology?
I have radar, but very rarely use it since the GPS chart is better.
Will soon be speccing up a new boat, and wonder if Radar is worth having.

Thoughts from your experience ?

NO Radar is not redundant!
Have you ever been out in fog?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Wilyum

How small of an object can radar pick up, say a small submerged log?

If it's submerged, radar won't see it. But the amount of surface protrusion you'll need to pick something up will depend on the specific radar in question, its mounting arrangement as well as the current sea conditions (rougher seas will make it harder to pick up small objects in the water, as waves will obscure them).

[sailorman7225]

Crossing the Gulf Stream from the Bahamas one night a large sailboat had lost all its lights and heading towards us. Radar picked him up; could have been messy. He was asked to shine a light on his sail to help better see him. There was a lot of traffic that night.

[Snore]

I would say “maybe” on a boat that never goes places.

But you purchased a large boat- logically you are headed places. I would set up the radar such that it can be operated from the helm OR the nav station.

On a delivery if things are getting nasty- I put my best mate at the helm and I become the radar operator. By being at the nav station I am out of the elements, have a dry screen and can focus on the various targets and their trails. I put the AIS overlay on and can almost safely navigate from below. The crew person at the wheel is my safety, using his eyes he can see small things (crab pots) that don’t show on radar. The third person on the delivery is looking out, getting coffee or relieving if we need a short break.

My recommendation is buy the best radar out there, comfortable it will be a few years before it is obsolete. Versus buying the cheapo that is 1/2 through its technological life span.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by BB7

Fair point re fishing boats, thanks. Rocks are charted adequately, and radar wont find them anyway. When you are sailing at night do you rely on the radar?

"Rocks are charted adequately"? THAT depends very much where you are. Around here uncharted rocks are "discovered" regularly.

Of course Radar isn't great at spotting sub-surface, or even surface-breaking rocks - of which we have plenty.

Lots and lots of small boats, logs, etc. don't have AIS. In fog or at night I use Radar all the time to avoid those. Also, older charts can be offset. Heading out of Bull Harbour last summer at 2am (absolutely PITCH black) the electronic charts showed us navigating 50 feet inland. Radar showed us right in the middle of the channel. For navigation in tight quarters, Radar gets the final say.

[Kelkara]

- A chart tells you where fixed things OUGHT to be.
- AIS tells you where SOME mobile things are (or where they were, if a signal is poor).
- Radar tells you where these things (if above the water level) ACTUALLY ARE.


I don't use my radar a lot (it uses lots of power) ... but when I do use it, nothing beats it ... mostly in fog, or moving around anchorages/harbours in the dark.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by BB7

AIS streaming from every other vessel

Closer to "every other" vessel than to every "other vessel".

If I'm out at night, or in fog, the main thing I want on the plotter is the radar. (AIS overlay doesn't hurt.)