Radar is now redundant ?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

almost inevitabilty the choice is about cost, if cost isnt a factor then of course one gets everything. But if cost is a factor the very low comparable cost of AIS and its installation is likley to be the "only" choice and therefore would be recommended over nothing

Yes, agreed. If you can't afford radar, it's a moot point. AIS is cheaper, especially just AIS-receive (which is all I have).

[boatpoker]

This excerpt from Primer For First Timers Heading South shows why charts cannot be trusted. It also shows issues that do not show up on chartplotters but do on radar, There are several other articles showing charts and GPS failures uncovered by radar.

Few people know how to tune, set gain, set FTC or STC or interpret radar. My Radar certificate took 11 weeks including simulator time.

My first trip south from Toronto to Antigua many years ago was pre-GPS but my trusty radar saw me through. I wouldn't cruise without it.

AIS is a nice toy and may become useful when all boats must have and use it.

[goboatingnow]

Invaluable in coastal areas with lots of obstructions, and traffic, including small fishing boats with no AIS.

In my experience at night , the human eye ball is remarkable and Ive rarely ever "needed" radar , I often had it on simply because it was fitted.

Mark one eyeball is better then any AIS, I find over the years , that seeing " obstructions " and small vessels was never the issue in normal darkness

IN restricted visibility , now you talking , but fog is not as common as people make out especially in warmer parts of the world

Aagin you miss a point , The big advantage of AIS is your position is broadcast

( in the EU all fishing vessels over 15 metres must have Transmit AIS )

[goboatingnow]

Always freaks me out to hear someone (usually on CF) brag about how they would sail into an unknown port in the dark, or in thick fog, using nothing but their chart plotter.

believe you me , Ive seen it all , amateur sailors are attracted to ports like seamen are to sirens

mind you in my YM exam , I had to navigate the boat from below, ( windows shielded ) using only depth & log information and a paper chart to the entrance of a marina , 15 miles away !!! The creman on the wheel was only allowed to call out features less then 50 yards away !!

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

IN restricted visibility , now you talking , but fog is not as common as people make out especially in warmer parts of the world

I've threaded the needle into many strange harbours in the middle of the night when the rain is horizontal using my radar. Many times my GPS showed me going through a breakwall. AIS would have been useless.

[mrcarson]

Coastal. Radar.
One of your most importand tools. Coastline. Above water rocks. Storm cells. decent sized ships and direction/speeed of. Picking up unseen moorings in the dark
Open water. Radius alarm. Notify's you when anything comes within that radii. And You hitting/grounding. Show ACTUAL movement of things around you.plus where THEY heading.
ON A GOOD ONE.
I've used 16m Furuno since it came out as an 8 mile version. 4ish miles the practical radii for ships in seaway. and under 60fters, a LOT less. You don't need that distance for most. But watch out. a moving ship doing 16nm and you doing 5 or 19/22 (fishing boat). will soon connect head on.....Furuno VERY accurate.
AIS is mainly shipping oriented. or was.I'm out of touch nowadays.
GPS/Plotter. for where theoretically, everything is.
Sounder/GOOD Sonar for what you about to hit/ground on..
CHARTS. and a pr of Bino's. and ALWAYS..... Somebody on watch cycle. even when lounging on foredeck. Stern cabin top. You moving. NO Alcahol. Permanent designated watch prson. 24hrs.
Even at anchor. Same as in car. ONE person of crew DOES NOT DRINK AT ALL.
It's known as responsibility. You can't park at the readside when tired.

BB7.........
""Originally Posted by BB7 View Post
With a large screen displaying GPS location on a super detailed chart, and AIS streaming from every other vessel, I wonder if Radar is now an outdated and redundant technology?
I have radar, but very rarely use it since the GPS chart is better.
Will soon be speccing up a new boat, and wonder if Radar is worth having.

Thoughts from your experience ?''

Read up on things. GPS/Plotter tell you where everything charted is THEORETICALLY at.
They ALL have misprints.wrong positions/distances on them.

Radar. Sounder/Sonar and your eyes/Bino's. Tell you where EVERYTHING above and below water actually are.

TRUST THEM. NOT a tv screen with moving pictures on them. You'll stay dry longer.
Watch tele when you got the Pick/s down AND SET.

OH please forget grammar and dots. I'm 80 yrs and left school halfway through first yr of high school to go as a deckie on trawlers. (Mate's dad skipper/Owner) 13 yrs old
and big for age Been going to sea with them since 9 yrs old.

[Lancerbye]

I travel the waters along Vancouver Island and north along the BC coast. A lot of that is either at night or in the fog. I rely very heavily on my radar. Up here,ais is only used by the bigger commercial boats. We have hundreds of small boats plying these waters. Radars have avoided many collisions.

[mrcarson]

Coastal. Radar.
One of your most importand tools. Coastline. Above water rocks. Storm cells. decent sized ships and direction/speeed of. Picking up unseen moorings in the dark
Open water. Radius alarm. Notify's you when anything comes within that radii. And You hitting/grounding. Show ACTUAL movement of things around you.plus where THEY heading.
ON A GOOD ONE.
I've used 16m Furuno since it came out as an 8 mile version. 4ish miles the practical radii for ships in seaway. and under 60fters, a LOT less. You don't need that distance for most. But watch out. a moving ship doing 16nm and you doing 5 or 19/22 (fishing boat). will soon connect head on.....Furuno VERY accurate.
AIS is mainly shipping oriented. or was.I'm out of touch nowadays.
A GPS/Plotter. for where theoretically, everything is.

A Sounder/GOOD Sonar for what you about to hit/ground on..
CHARTS. and a pr of Bino's. and ALWAYS..... Somebody on watch cycle. even when lounging on foredeck. Stern cabin top. You moving. NO Alcahol. Permanent designated watch prson. 24hrs.
Even at anchor. Same as in car. ONE person of crew DOES NOT DRINK AT ALL.
It's known as responsibility. You can't park at the readside when tired.

BB7.........
""Originally Posted by BB7 View Post
With a large screen displaying GPS location on a super detailed chart, and AIS streaming from every other vessel, I wonder if Radar is now an outdated and redundant technology?
I have radar, but very rarely use it since the GPS chart is better.
Will soon be speccing up a new boat, and wonder if Radar is worth having.

Thoughts from your experience ?''

Read up on things. GPS/Plotter tell you where everything charted is THEORETICALLY at.
They ALL have misprints.wrong positions/distances on them.

Radar. Sounder/Sonar and your eyes/Bino's. Tell you where EVERYTHING above and below water actually are.

TRUST THEM. NOT a tv screen with moving pictures on them. You'll stay dry longer.
Watch tele when you got the Pick/s down AND SET.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I've threaded the needle into many strange harbours in the middle of the night when the rain is horizontal using my radar. Many times my GPS showed me going through a breakwall. AIS would have been useless.

that's great , but its just not good seamanship to close on ports in that situation and no experienced sailor ( or instructor ) would recommend it

[mrcarson]

Above.
LEE shore. Increasing weather. PROVEN accurate Radar.
CAN be the safer of the 2 evils.
You would have made a Go/No go.
(head offshore). decision, A long time b4 that point.
Personally. I put my Radar. Sounder, string line and charts.
at top of my list on the boat. Plus good anchoring gear, and drogue.
On a LEE shore and you not sure of things.
Batten down. Then drop biggest pick at end of anchor chain. with several anchoring points on stemhead/cleats.
That 100+ mtrs depth less any drag, will. Hopefully....
Hold you offshore. Outside the breakers line till it abates.
It worked for me once.

[goboatingnow]

AIS is mainly shipping oriented. or was.I'm out of touch nowadays.
GPS/Plotter. for where theoretically, everything is.
Sounder/GOOD Sonar for what you about to hit/ground on..
CHARTS. and a pr of Bino's. and ALWAYS..... Somebody on watch cycle. even when lounging on foredeck. Stern cabin top. You moving. NO Alcahol. Permanent designated watch prson. 24hrs.
Even at anchor. Same as in car. ONE person of crew DOES NOT DRINK AT ALL.
It's known as responsibility. You can't park at the readside when tired.

Around ME AIS is on all ships and fishing boats over 15metres , many yachts have it too. its not pervasive but its getting like that every day

Sounder/GOOD Sonar for what you about to hit/ground

sonars in a collision with terra firma are largely a historical record of where you just went aground

Somebody on watch cycle. even when lounging on foredeck. Stern cabin top. You moving. NO Alcohol. Permanent designated watch person. 24hrs.
Even at anchor

seriously a couple sailing need to sleep. passagemaking needs a watch , anchoring and a watch is a " call", in some cases a watch is needed , in others not

Same as in car.

nothing about boating is the same as a car

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by mrcarson

Above.
LEE shore. Increasing weather. PROVEN accurate Radar.
CAN be the safer of the 2 evils.
You would have made a Go/No go.
(head offshore). decision, A long time b4 that point.

entering an unknown port at night in restricted visibility and heavy rain and or bad conditions , is a recipe that will get you killed , your nearly always safer at sea

radar gives all sorts of false images especially close up etc , again its not an infallible tool

[N Coast Murray]

Deadheads are normal on BC's north coast, but this one was a standout. Was in the water long enough for its root wad to get waterlogged.

Could be a butt-clencher with no radar at night or in fog.

Entrance to Kildala Arm during summer fire season.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Galileo provides 1 meter accuracy without needing SBAS. its not a military controlled system. GPS being the oldest system is generally the least accurate of the 4 systems operational.

Note in my post I did not say it was run by the military, but that the military can alter it.
It's actually more applicable to FAA and aircraft.
Boatyarddog

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog

Note in my post I did not say it was run by the military, but that the military can alter it.
It's actually more applicable to FAA and aircraft.
Boatyarddog

GPS IS run by the military !!, Galileo is not and there is NO protocol for any military intervention , the EU does not have a military per se or a centralised command for one. The EU itself can control the system using a quite complex treaty and of course it can shut the system down but its not influenced by the military . Galileo is the only such system

equally newer GPS Block IIF sats have no ability to introduce selective availability , teh US miliatry can disable GPS or jam it locally , but they increasing cant degrade the location accuracy

Gallileo cannot be altered by the military , only by an civilian based decision process.