Radar is now redundant ?

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

entering an unknown port at night in restricted visibility and heavy rain and or bad conditions , is a recipe that will get you killed , your nearly always safer at sea

radar gives all sorts of false images especially close up etc , again its not an infallible tool

Well you have a CP right?
And a spot light?
No one expects to use Radar In Port.
Your not going into a port and being at sea at the same time.
Your radar is very useful, until port.
Then your on a CP and Watch, fog horn, eyes on.
Boatyarddog

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by N Coast Murray

Deadheads are normal on BC's north coast, but this one was a standout. Was in the water long enough for its root wad to get waterlogged.

Could be a butt-clencher with no radar at night or in fog.

Entrance to Kildala Arm during summer fire season.

kind of " edge case" for most of us though

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

In my experience at night , the human eye ball is remarkable and Ive rarely ever "needed" radar , I often had it on simply because it was fitted.

Mark one eyeball is better then any AIS, I find over the years , that seeing " obstructions " and small vessels was never the issue in normal darkness

IN restricted visibility , now you talking , but fog is not as common as people make out especially in warmer parts of the world

Aagin you miss a point , The big advantage of AIS is your position is broadcast

( in the EU all fishing vessels over 15 metres must have Transmit AIS )

And ample RADAR reflection AIDS.
That is how you can be "seen" without much cost.
At your own risk!
AIS may help.
Boatyarddog

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog

And ample RADAR reflection AIDS.
That is how you can be "seen" without much cost.
At your own risk!
AIS may help.
Boatyarddog

Practical SAiling did a famous review of commercial RADAR reflectors. they found the best results were to be had by hauling up a big black garbage bag of crushed aluminium foil !!!!

In my experience of passive radar reflectors, all are basically useless , On every delivery where I could I would call ships in the distance at night and ask the watch if he could see me by my lights or on his radar , Id say 8 out of 10 couldn't see me by any method except by AIS !!!

20 miles out of Naples Italy. My transmit AIS was causing container ships over the visible horizon to steer to avoid the WAFI,

Its also great for calling up ships, about the only thing they react to is a DSC call these days , equally they can " ping " me, but rarely do . calling " ship at poisition xxxx is usseless " ( the watch doesn't have a clue what his current GNSS co -ords are anyway )

irrespective of RADAR, in my opinion Transmit AIS is one of the greatest safety advances for small yachts in the last 20 years, if its all you can afford dont hesitate to fit it

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Practical SAiling did a famous review of commercial RADAR reflectors. they found the best results were to be had by hauling up a big black garbage bag of crushed aluminium foil !!!!

In my experience of passive radar reflectors, all are basically useless , On every delivery where I could I would call ships in the distance at night and ask the watch if he could see me by my lights or on his radar , Id say 8 out of 10 couldn't see me by any method except by AIS !!!

20 miles out of Naples Italy. My transmit AIS was causing container ships over the visible horizon to steer to avoid the WAFI,

Its also great for calling up ships, about the only thing they react to is a DSC call these days , equally they can " ping " me, but rarely do . calling " ship at poisition xxxx is usseless " ( the watch doesn't have a clue what his current GNSS co -ords are anyway )

irrespective of RADAR, in my opinion Transmit AIS is one of the greatest safety advances for small yachts in the last 20 years, if its all you can afford dont hesitate to fit it

That shows why radar and AIS make a great pair. AIS can give you more info about a radar target or fill in one that's not being picked up. And radar can see stuff that doesn't transmit AIS.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

That shows why radar and AIS make a great pair. AIS can give you more info about a radar target or fill in one that's not being picked up. And radar can see stuff that doesn't transmit AIS.

absolutely, I would never support the assertion in the title , but as I've said , if the kitty is stretched, then Transmit AIS is a great addition

[mrcarson]

Even at anchor. Same as in car. ONE person of crew DOES NOT DRINK AT ALL.
It's known as responsibility. You can't park at the readside when tired.""
Fair enuff. I've been a single hander for over 50 yrs. Differnt rools.
and a car/boat are both the same as they run into some hard stuff.
When you get to sea you'll find quite a lot do or used to not turn AIS on. Small boats it drains battery in dark. Radar you have engine running mostly.

entering an unknown port at night in restricted visibility and heavy rain and or bad conditions , is a recipe that will get you killed , your nearly always safer at sea
Usually. BUT sometimes. if weather swings after o made decision. Even if you slow down. Changing course not safe. that harbour/bay is the least worse of choices.
A 26ft min height Scanner will give reasonable safe and accurate view.
I've hove to more times than you can count but. sometimes. Circumstances....
You have to make best of a bad choice.
Radar IS the best in most cases I've found. with a stringline for depth when shallow.
I've actually grounded my boat once to keep her safe. In daylight coming into dark.
A NOT forecast front came through. Sth AUst 45/50+ knots. onshore on rocky coastline. e.
I dropped pick. then turned her Long keel to water. on her side. Slid up beach. Small waves. high wind there.
The shelterd cove saved us. No long run hence SMALL waves, just the wind.
no Bouncing as such for us (steel). Shallow water low tide.
Anchor winch. Fuller tide, flat water. Offshore breeze. She came off with help of tractor and winch. Coupla anchors in deeper water. Lucky.
I had to repaint stbd side later. Bummer.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by mrcarson

Even at anchor. Same as in car. ONE person of crew DOES NOT DRINK AT ALL.

OK OK we get the message !

It's known as responsibility. You can't park at the readside when tired.""
Fair enuff. I've been a single hander for over 50 yrs. Differnt rools.
and a car/boat are both the same as they run into some hard stuff.

cars kill you cause they go fast, boats kill you causes they sink, there nothing in common

When you get to sea you'll find quite a lot do or used to not turn AIS on. Small boats it drains battery in dark. Radar you have engine running mostly.

These days that's simply not the case, a few solar panels etc and you have all the power you need, we ran our chartplotter etc all the way across the Atlantic , Modern AIS is quite efficient

entering an unknown port at night in restricted visibility and heavy rain and or bad conditions , is a recipe that will get you killed , your nearly always safer at sea

Usually. BUT sometimes. if weather swings after o made decision. Even if you slow down. Changing course not safe. that harbour/bay is the least worse of choices

.

Thats the attitude that got a friend of mine killed in 2005 in france in January

A 26ft min height Scanner will give reasonable safe and accurate view.

sure

I've hove to more times than you can count but. sometimes. Circumstances....
You have to make best of a bad choice.

thats boating , heaving too doesnt work well on modern fin keel sloops

Radar IS the best in most cases I've found. with a stringline for depth when shallow.

my Uncle, remembers " swinging the lead " on an East india boat entering Sydney Harbour , most people, however, have moved on a bit, these days t !!!

I've actually grounded my boat once to keep her safe. In daylight coming into dark.
A NOT forecast front came through. Sth AUst 45/50+ knots. onshore on rocky coastline. e.
I dropped pick. then turned her Long keel to water. on her side. Slid up beach. Small waves. high wind there.
The shelterd cove saved us. No long run hence SMALL waves, just the wind.
no Bouncing as such for us (steel). Shallow water low tide.
Anchor winch. Fuller tide, flat water. Offshore breeze. She came off with help of tractor and winch. Coupla anchors in deeper water. Lucky.
I had to repaint stbd side later. Bummer.

Its called a ship wreck , that you managed to extricate yourself from , congratulations , poor Moitessier tried the same thing , Joshua had to be dug out when he abandoned her in disgust

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Practical SAiling did a famous review of commercial RADAR reflectors. they found the best results were to be had by hauling up a big black garbage bag of crushed aluminium foil !!!!

In my experience of passive radar reflectors, all are basically useless , On every delivery where I could I would call ships in the distance at night and ask the watch if he could see me by my lights or on his radar , Id say 8 out of 10 couldn't see me by any method except by AIS !!!

20 miles out of Naples Italy. My transmit AIS was causing container ships over the visible horizon to steer to avoid the WAFI,

Its also great for calling up ships, about the only thing they react to is a DSC call these days , equally they can " ping " me, but rarely do . calling " ship at poisition xxxx is usseless " ( the watch doesn't have a clue what his current GNSS co -ords are anyway )

irrespective of RADAR, in my opinion Transmit AIS is one of the greatest safety advances for small yachts in the last 20 years, if its all you can afford dont hesitate to fit it

Passive better than squat, you can upgrade.

I've asked many a vessel/ ferry captain how well he saw me in low visiabliity condition.
He reported that the signal is very reconizable on the screen, so your own opinion.

I use them , I know others see them.
Maybe your idea of a BIG trash bag of t foil is best.
Boatyarddog

[Sorcery61]

Radar is still an essential part of a navigation suite if you are sailing in fog, in fiords, in areas of high numbers of smaller vessels, and when you experience GNSS spoofing
Many areas can lose GNSS signals and your chart plotter will then freeze
Radar will allow you to ascertain range and bearing to any feature of concern more rapidly than using other coastal piloting techniques.
Very hard to find a better way in reduced visibility from fog, snow, smoke, dust storms, high levels of pollution etc that impede normal visibility
AIS is not required on pleasure boats so is unreliable to avoid all collision and allusion risks
Depth sounder, compass, charts and a clock are the base layers of a safe navigation system
Radar, AIS, RDF, vhf, SSB , computers ECDIS systems are great supplementary tools.
Whatever you opt to equip your vessel with to match your location and style of boating ,remember that the situation awareness and mark 1 eyeballs of a trained watchstander are very hard to safely do without
Stay safe out there and happy pleasurable boating!

[mrcarson]

Radar is the easiest and most accurate way to correlate speeds. Ships won't normally change course for you there's too much involved
There's nothing better after dark when wind dropped. tide turned etc.
Radar identifies P/S channel markers and everything moving.

For coastal cruising. "List of Lights" in AUstralia (and everywhere else) is a must have.
It identifies EVERY coastal pole.Light.Channel marker. in the WORLD. Many books to cover many areas. K was mine. Should be compulsory reading and nav item on your boat. Ships do by law.

[donradcliffe]

I'd take the AIS first, unless I planned to sail extensively in fog.

Its cheaper, more accurate, not weather dependent, takes far less power, separates dangerous targets from others, and gives you the names of the targets.

I had both on my boat, but the radar was on less than 1% of the time because it drew 5 amps. However, I used radar twice avoiding pirates at night.

I can see boats better at night than during the day, if I don't destroy my night vision by staring at the radar screen.

Anyone who says radar is useful to see other boats in the rain has never been in a real tropical downpour, or in 6 meter waves.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

kind of " edge case" for most of us though

Yup. The BC coast certainly has more than its share of hazards and challenges - including the fastest tidal rapids in the world.

[AlanR]

[QUOTE
AIS streaming from every other vessel, I wonder if Radar is now an outdated and redundant technology

Thoughts from your experience ?[/QUOTE]

Small boats do not have AIS, and many large boats do not. What about marker and mooring buoys in poor visibility. Navigating a river in poor visibility. Military/Naval vessels seldom switch AIS on.

Does "Every other vessel" mean one out of two? In my experience, it is much, much less than that. Think carefully.

If the choice were Radar or AIS, I would choose Radar.

[RaymondR]

I now have dopler radar and one of the uses I put it to, even in daylight when visibility is good, is watching astern in busy nav channels for overtaking vessels. I find it a great aid to situational awareness.