Radar or Not ?

[capecuddy]

I have the 3G broadband radar overlayed on Lowrance HDS"10 chartplotter using the Simrad RC42 heading sensor. I was recently grounded (twice) around Chatham, MA and of course the tide didn't free me until total darkness in a new moon (both times).

The 3G radar is very high resolution but low power. Its only good for a few miles, but presents fine grained targets starting as close as about 40 feet from the boat. It's ideal for navigating in dark and fog in tight quarters. It overlays the gps charts accurately.

I went about 10 miles in pitch black darkness using the radar to keep me off land and avoiding bumps into ATON's that I'd waypointed in my GPS. (The idea is to miss the radar version vice the waypoint version of the markers of course).

It is a different radar and you need to think about it with a fresh view of what it does vs comparing it to high power tube radars you may have once had.

[CharlesFCook]

AIS - YES !!!!!!
RADAR - Yes !!!!!

Take a RADAR class so you know how to use it.

[rebel heart]

On our boat we have a radar which we rarely turn on. On the fishing boat I work on we have two radars. They're handy I suppose but I'd never put them on the "need" list. As far as navigating with them goes that's pretty spooky even if you know your radar quite well. The signature doesn't get returned until high-enough-vertical surfaces, which can be ~100' from the shore, and you could have lots of shoals leading up to even that. So if "navigating" to you means you have a general idea where land is without knowing enough to be specific, I guess it's helpful.

It's worth the money, far from required. Great way for lookouts to stare at more screens in the cockpit/wheelhouse rather than look around outside.

[onestepcsy37]

i guess it depends on your sailing grounds.

here in florida / bahamas i find it unnecessary. fog is practically unknown, nobody sails at night in the bahamas, thunderstorms can be seen coming from many miles away, there are lots of places to stop and anchor in ten foot or less depths, the florida coast is well lit as is shipping traffic. i've only sailed on one boat that had radar and the owner told me he had never found any need for it; it was originally a northern boat and came equpped with it.

yes, i've got the room and the power for it, but i'd rather put the money in another solar panel....

[Jon Hacking]

Originally Posted by capecuddy

I have the 3G broadband radar ... It is a different radar and you need to think about it with a fresh view of what it does vs comparing it to high power tube radars you may have once had.

Hi Cape - & Welcome to Cruisers Forum! Our radar recently got zorched by lightening, so we're on the market for a new one. These "broadband" radars have come out since we last looked, so I don't know much about them. What can you tell us? What fresh view do we need? What are their strengths? Their weaknesses? What do you like/not like? Thanks!

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by onestepcsy37

i guess it depends on your sailing grounds.

here in florida / bahamas i find it unnecessary. fog is practically unknown, nobody sails at night in the bahamas, thunderstorms can be seen coming from many miles away, there are lots of places to stop and anchor in ten foot or less depths, the florida coast is well lit as is shipping traffic. i've only sailed on one boat that had radar and the owner told me he had never found any need for it; it was originally a northern boat and came equpped with it.

yes, i've got the room and the power for it, but i'd rather put the money in another solar panel....

In agreement with you. It's funny to me when I see people list equipment as "necessary" when it's clearly not been in use for many successful years.

[Strygaldwir]

There has been one time I needed radar. Got caught in a HEAVY downpour in the Florida keys and a nother boat almost rammed me (came within 10 feet). There were two time where I REALY would have liked Radar. Both in unexpected rain squalls.

Having said that and since using it. I find it very nice on those lonely nights when there are lights that I have trouble identifying. Nice to turn on MARPA and see if they are really moving or not, if they're going to run into me or not. So, at night, in rain, (haven't done fog) Good. During clear days, for me, not useful.

[capecuddy]

Originally Posted by Jon Hacking

Hi Cape - & Welcome to Cruisers Forum! Our radar recently got zorched by lightening, so we're on the market for a new one. These "broadband" radars have come out since we last looked, so I don't know much about them. What can you tell us? What fresh view do we need? What are their strengths? Their weaknesses? What do you like/not like? Thanks!

I love mine. It is intended to help you navigate in tight quaters in fog or dark.

It is very high resolution (approx 1 meter) which means in practice if there is a pair of ATON's at the beginning of a narrow channel, I can see them both side by each rather than a single blob. It also has incredibly close minimum range, essentially just past your gunwales. So in my example and my experience, as I pass thru the ATON pair, I can see a retun on port and starboard sides, each say 30 ft off my broadsides.

The 3G radar is very low power so it is safe as a cell phone, but it is continuous wave as opposed to pulsed so it is integrating the energy from returns constantly. That also means it has great visibility in clutter. Military fire control radars employ similar processing and waveform approaches.

Where people get frustrated with missed expectations is that due to its low power and size, it doesn't see targets at ranges much beyond say 8 miles and fairly large ones at that. This radar is for close quater navigation. You are not looking for birds for fishing spots. This radar let's you see anything that can hit you or vice versa in a harbor or marina in plenty of time.

It is capable of rain storm detection. You can adjust rain sensivity and sea clutter sensitivity separately. Very good automatic operation. Again on min range, I can see my own wake just to emphasize how close in this operates. For big ships, I rely on AIS returns from my Standard Horizon GX-2150 radio using 0183 interface to the HDS-10.

I use the Simrad RC42 heading sensor to enable radar overlay onto my GPS chart screen. I have nuns and cans marked as gps waypoints, but when navigating in the dark, I can see where the marker is Now in this tide and I steer to miss the radar return not the waypoint.

The design was done by Simrad I believe with a legacy connection to Kongsberg in Norway. Branded both as Simrad and Lowrance.

I wish the sonar worked this well....

[psneeld]

There is a BUNCH of wrong or misguded info so far in this thread. RADAR is one tool and in any tool box everyone has some they use a lot and some they can do many things with.

Those that don't recommend it often don't have enough experience either in general or experience in how to use one...

Is RADAR essential? No but to keep going in conditions that will scare the skin off you if you proceed without RADAR...the RADAR in experienced hands can make shooting an inlet in pouring rain or fog or dark of night a mere walk in the park.

So if you don't mind boating without equipment that makes doing things safer under certain conditions and will "wait it out"...then by all means...RADAR isn't near the top of nav equipment.

Yes... a good chartplotter will get you in that inlet or safe distance off the coast...but it won't tell if you are about to get run over by a 100 footer.

[captain58sailin]

If you have the option, definitely get one. There are many nice units out there today. They are not essential, but as was pointed out before, the chart plotter cannot tell you who is coming your way. Chart plotters with radar overlay gets you the best of both worlds.

[downunder]

On the Queensland Great Barrier Reef in the days before chartplotters our main nightime nav tool apart from the compass was the radar to mark our position accurately on the chart and allow us to get amongst the reef waiting for daylight for the final approach.

For the prudent navigator its one of those by all means tool to navigate safely particularly coastal at night unless you have absolute belief in the infallibility of the chartplotter.

[capecuddy]

Integration is the trend that you see in marine electronics. NMEA2000 networks, older NMEA 0183 (aka RS232 and RS422) and ethernet make it possible to have the best of several worlds merged onto one screen.

On my HDS-10, I've got the GPS Chartplotter, overlayed radar (or Sirius satellite weather), AIS targets and DSC waypoints all on the familiar navigation charts. I've got data overlays for speed, depth, MPG and trim so I can keep the engine performance tweaked as I cruise along. The cost of all this is quite modest given the extensive capability it offers.

There is, as someone mentioned, a whole lot to learn in all this, but frankly that is one of the dimensions that makes boating a lot of fun to me personally. Having retired after 41 years in Defense electronics (mostly radar), I'm astonished at the capability delivered by the affordable chart plotters, broadband radars and DSC/AIS equipped VHF radios, not to mention engine data. It's a challenge to keep all this in perspective as you cruise along your favorite waterways. Now all I need is a skyhook to keep from running aground!

[Dhillen]

If you cruise further afield than your home waters you will find radar an essential piece of safety gear. This is particularly the case in the developing world where much of the traffic won't by AIS equipped, meaning they are there but your AIS will not see them. A caveat is radar doesn't see wood so well. We had the 4KW Furuno job that was great but sometimes wouldn't pick up large wooden dhows when we crossed the Arabian Sea. Sinbad could have snuck right up on us which is why it is essential not to let radar replace good ole eyeball scanning of the horizon. Fore and aft.

I would like to point out something not mentioned in the previous posts and that is the radar display should be in the cockpit. If you are shorthanded and in a tricky area at night you can't be running up and down below checking the radar. In high traffic areas this is just too confusing with targets moving around twice your speed.

When cruising our rule of thumb is always if the boat is moving the radar is on.

Cheers.

Dhillen

[zeehag]

i still think is better to see what your are doing than to keep your eyes on a screen. only used my radar 3 times on way from ensenada to mazatlan. coul see fine--why use electricity for no reason.

[daddle]

I'm with Bash. Radar is vastly more useful than AIS. I even used it when some dimwit came over and complained I was anchored to close. Click. Blip. "Mate, you are 210 meters away..."