Radar Reflector

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Factor

But my strategy is always to run away and avoid and semblance of confrontation.

He who runs away today, lives to SAIL another day.

[JPA Cate]

Matt,

Maybe you can take Manera out in company with somebody who has a radar, and get feedback on your signal with and without the Fridell Blipper. Then decided to leave it off or put it back on again.

Ann

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Matt,

Maybe you can take Manera out in company with somebody who has a radar, and get feedback on your signal with and without the Fridell Blipper. Then decided to leave it off or put it back on again.

Ann

A great idea, and, darn it, I just missed the only people I know with a radar (albeit a new fangled state of the art radar) who set sail for their world cruise last weekend.

Hey... maybe I should run after them and see if they can check it for me when I catch up with them... in... say... Vanuatu....

Otherwise, there's bound to be someone around the club who I can ask... and if so, I will report back here.

Matt

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by GILow

A great idea, and, darn it, I just missed the only people I know with a radar (albeit a new fangled state of the art radar) who set sail for their world cruise last weekend.

Hey... maybe I should run after them and see if they can check it for me when I catch up with them... in... say... Vanuatu....

Otherwise, there's bound to be someone around the club who I can ask... and if so, I will report back here.

Matt

Radar returns from both the boat and reflector are aspect dependent. Consequently, measurements by a friends radar have the chance of being significantly misleading.

Consider the following:
1. signal resolution of friends radar (how small a difference can be resolved)
2. comparative signal for same pitch angle
3. comparative signal for same roll angle
4. range effects
5. pitch and roll aspect of measuring boat

There is little chance of doing a apples-to-apples comparison unless the difference between the boat and reflector are dramatic.

Also, consider that the reflector is some distance off the water when compared with the hull which will play to the range differences.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

Radar returns from both the boat and reflector are aspect dependent....

Oh bugger it, I think I will just make myself a tinfoil hat instead.

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

Radar returns from both the boat and reflector are aspect dependent. Consequently, measurements by a friends radar have the chance of being significantly misleading.

Consider the following:
1. signal resolution of friends radar (how small a difference can be resolved)
2. comparative signal for same pitch angle
3. comparative signal for same roll angle
4. range effects
5. pitch and roll aspect of measuring boat

There is little chance of doing a apples-to-apples comparison unless the difference between the boat and reflector are dramatic.

Also, consider that the reflector is some distance off the water when compared with the hull which will play to the range differences.

That is why the boating media have been pretty unsuccessful at doing tests of reflectors and/or the results if tried have at best been confusing. The British tests were I believe done in a laboratory rather than under real conditions out at sea, so maybe gave accurate comparisons vis a vis effective area at angles of heel etc, but these conflicted/confused practical experiences over the years. I believe they also identified another potential testing difficulty, that two reflective surfaces close together can actually interfere with each other and either add to the radar return or worse still cancel each other out entirely. Setting up any kind of meaningful testing under practical conditions has proven very elusive as a result, not helpful, nor reassuring, but puzzling for sure.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

PBO ( UK ) did a comparison test years ago, the winner was a trash bag full of crumpled aluminium foil hauled up the mast !!

Interesting. Years ago I was sailing the Straights of Florida and got on the radio with a couple of tugs with a string of barges coming my way. They both saw my lights but never got a radar return even on closest point of approach which was about a mile. It was pretty rough so they probably had the sea state filters turned up but still.

So I grabbed an old cardboard box, filled it with wadded aluminum foil (didn't have any aluminium foil on board) and hoisted that up to the spreaders. They reported a good return for several miles on my homemade reflector.

[CarlF]

Too many skippers are delaying the installation of an AIS transponder on the argument that radar (and a radar reflector) is safe in waters with commercial traffic. Times have changed. Large ships (the ones to worry about) depend on AIS more than radar for collision avoidance.

Instead of spending $200 on a radar reflector that only helps a little, you can spend a bit more for an AIS transponder and know you'll be seen.

AMEC CAMINO-108 Class B AIS transponder

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Too many skippers are delaying the installation of an AIS transponder on the argument that radar (and a radar reflector) is safe in waters with commercial traffic. Times have changed. Large ships (the ones to worry about) depend on AIS more than radar for collision avoidance.

Instead of spending $200 on a radar reflector that only helps a little, you can spend a bit more for an AIS transponder and know you'll be seen.

AMEC CAMINO-108 Class B AIS transponder

I think it is a little tough to make the claim that you know you will be seen with AIS. The watch crew could be watching the Super Bowl. Therefore, I wouldn't know unless confirmed by radio communication. Most yachts don't have AIS at this time and they are also a potential hazard.

I do agree that if given the choice I would choose AIS first.

However, 200 bucks is cheap for one more arrow in the quiver to avert potential damage to my own expensive boat and my personal being.

The passive reflector is good backup for when your AIS goes down for some reason on a dark and stormy night.

[sailor Jon]

With the low cost of the new AIS/VHF radios there is no reason not to have one. Sailor Jon.

[DDabs]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

The watch crew could be watching the Super Bowl.

Just don't go sailing on Super Bowl Sunday... Problem solved.

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by DDabs

Just don't go sailing on Super Bowl Sunday... Problem solved.

I would go sailing specifically to avoid superbowl!.

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by Robin3

I would go sailing specifically to avoid superbowl!.

Like me, you don't have a television onboard?

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by markpierce

Like me, you don't have a television onboard?

We have a TV, in fact we inherited three with our current boat but have no antenna fitted and no signal if away from our cable connection in the slip, but we do have a DVD player built into the TV. If we had a TV system that we could use at anchor I wouldn't waste good battery power on watching superbowl, it is simply too boring to a Brit like me and even the boss lady only shows interest in the sideshow that goes with superbowl, but if it were the FA cup (soccer, AKA proper footie that is) or something more interesting like golf or even synchronised swimming, who knows.