Raymarine Autopilot dropping to standby

[Dave22q]

My 10+ yr old ST6002 shows no such problems. That may be due to the batteries never being much below capacity. Even when a battery went bad the AP worked until Ilost power.

[Smourt]

I found the sensitivity of the rudder control was an issue, swell would knock it off course and it would not recover. It would then go to standby

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Smourt

I found the sensitivity of the rudder control was an issue, swell would knock it off course and it would not recover. It would then go to standby

That's another beef I have with the Ray APs I've had. They get off course and alarm. That's fine and can happen with any AP. But my Ray units give up at that point instead of doing the failsafe thing and continue trying to put the boat on course till someone can deal with the alarm. Not sure if the newer Ray units still act this way.

[pierrrre]

I had this problem also for several years until I found the culprit. I noticed one day that when the drinking water pump would start, the AP would drop out to Standby. I figured that when the pump start, the voltage drop and bingo. I solved the problem by turning the water pump off when sailing.

[Mithril Bham]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Having the AP take a random flyer to standby mode is just unacceptable. Picture yourself flying down the face of a wave and the AP decides to turn itself to standby for a little break.. The boat now the boat rounds up and is beam onto the waves.
This is why I quit having Raymarine APs. I went through 3 Ray AP computers in 7 years and they all occasionally would take a flyer.

Did you replace it and, if so, with what?

[Wind Shadow]

Hello, I am in serious need of a 12 volt drive motor (any condition). The motor is for the linear drive for a Autohelm 7000 autopilot. If anyone has one sitting around that you don't need I would appreciate it very much.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by magellanyachts

Did you replace it and, if so, with what?

I use a Furuno AP with an L&S hydraulic drive. Have the last Ray wrapped in foil and down below as a backup. Have about 20,000 miles on the Furuno.

[sy_gilana]

Thanks for the replies. Some things to think about there. I suspect software, like a seatalk command that is spurious.

I will check voltages, but It does it at anchor too, takes up to 3 hours to happen, and sometimes not for another 12.

24v system, FAT wires supplying the Course computer, but the 12v side powering the seatalk bus is another circuit completely. Will have to monitor that voltage, my DMM can do a max/min function so I will leave it connected, and do the buzzer circuit too. I should be able to see if there was a drop on the seatalk bus. None of my units supply power to seatalk, its black and yellow only. The Red is connected to a 12v battery that is charged from the 24v banks through a voltage inverter. That 12v battery drives the radios etc only.

System is a rotary drive with 13:28 sprockets driving a hydraulic pump (also connected to wheel with chain, 5 turns lock to lock) to two opposing rams in the laz. It is waaaaaay overpowered, has never had a drivestop error even in the worst seas.

[Mithril Bham]

Looking for used compass for Autohelm 7000.
Thanks

[Snore]

Gilana

If the chart-plotter is a Garmin and on the same circuit/battery, turn on the built in low voyage alarm. Not sure if other plotters have them.

Set the threshold for an alarm fairly high (12.5?) and see if it goes off.


Sent from my iPhone- please forgive autocorrect errors.

[Mystic38]

i forget the number, but there is a fan-out limit of seatalk (aka # of devices that can be powered from one end).. consider adding extra power to it... I have my seatalk bus powered in three places.

I also suspect voltage drop.

other notes.

the default sensitivity is 5, which uses a lot of power, if winds and seas are stable 3 is easy to work with and occasionally i run the sensitivity down at 1.. at this point the power consumption is significantly less than the default setting.

and, like another poster, a whacky wind change, current shear or whatever that makes the unit go off course will result in an alarm and entry to standby.. if you have not gone through the dealer setup routines and trimmed the responses then the chances of this happening in more normal sailing situations i would expect to be higher.

Originally Posted by sy_gilana

Thanks for the replies. Some things to think about there. I suspect software, like a seatalk command that is spurious.

I will check voltages, but It does it at anchor too, takes up to 3 hours to happen, and sometimes not for another 12.

24v system, FAT wires supplying the Course computer, but the 12v side powering the seatalk bus is another circuit completely. Will have to monitor that voltage, my DMM can do a max/min function so I will leave it connected, and do the buzzer circuit too. I should be able to see if there was a drop on the seatalk bus. None of my units supply power to seatalk, its black and yellow only. The Red is connected to a 12v battery that is charged from the 24v banks through a voltage inverter. That 12v battery drives the radios etc only.

System is a rotary drive with 13:28 sprockets driving a hydraulic pump (also connected to wheel with chain, 5 turns lock to lock) to two opposing rams in the laz. It is waaaaaay overpowered, has never had a drivestop error even in the worst seas.

[ramblinrod]

First and foremost, before mucking about with your vessel electrical system (for anything, but especially for a safety device like an AP), become intimately familiar with ABYC E11 - AC and DC Electrical Systems on Boats, and/or NMEA standards for vessel wiring and proper DC grounding methods.

Faulty installation is the # 1 cause of electrical and electronics failures. (Everything else is a very distant second.)

Most AP dropouts to standby are due to low voltage. If the condition never happens, or happens less frequently when the engine is running (with alternator charge voltage connected to the battery powering the AP), this is almost definitely a power issue.

(An off-course drop-out results in an "off-course" display and beep. These too are often due to poor installation or operator error, including extremely poor sail trim.)

Many DIY installations suffer this problem, and some "yard technician" installations also suffer.

The first step is to measure the voltage at the course computer (if equipped) and/or display head, WHILE HIGH CURRENT DC LOADS SUCH AS REFRIGERATION, INVERTERS, AND AP MOTORS ARE SWITCHING ON.

(ST4000+ and earlier models had the course computer in the display head, newer models are separate.)

In almost all cases, the culprit it too small wire, bad connections, or poor ground and grounding. (If you don't know the difference between "ground" and "grounding", go back to paragraph # 1.

For all instrumentation, the power wiring chosen should cause no more than 3% voltage drop OVER THE LOOP LENGTH. ie If your battery terminal voltage is 12.80, your voltage at the + terminal on the instrument (WRT the negative battery terminal), should be no less than 12.61 (if the device + terminal is in the middle of the power cable loop).

Note that some switches and breakers, especially when they get older (but even some brand new) can have high impedance contacts, which will cause excessive voltage drop.

STOP USING CHEAP DC DISTRIBUTION PANELS TO POWER SAFETY EQUIPMENT! (I can't say this loud enough.) Would you buy a low quality, discount parachute, from a non-reputable supplier? Your instrumentation may be just as important to your safety.

The power cable should be as short as possible while being routed properly (away from AC cables and high current DC cables).

One also must watch the cable from the battery to the distribution panel. This should be very large gauge and as short as possible.

An AP is a safety device, someday (perhaps every day), you or crew may count on it (with your life) to work properly. All connections beyond the distribution panel should be waterproof (including the connections at the display head). For older models with stab on bayonet connections, seal them with RTV (silicone sealant) after verifying good connections. For any terminal block connections, seal them the same way. (The RTV can be removed if ever needed, but properly sealed one will rarely need to, until it is time to upgrade the electronics.) Newer display models, powered by the Seatalk NG network come with waterproof connectors WHEN CONNECTED PROPERLY (twist till they click and no further).

Another (remote) possibility is EMI (electromagnetic interference). Many jump to this first, not wishing to entertain that they may have botched the power wiring. Power wiring is the problem 98% of the time.

Ensure EMC instructions are followed. Use the ferrites supplied or recommended.

Investigate EMI possibility AFTER every possible low voltage possibility has been eliminated.

Lastly, it is possible the unit could be defective. People tend to jump to this conclusion first, but if the weatherproof case has not been compromised, and the unit is less than 20 years old, it is rarely the issue.

We expect our brand new home entertainment electronics to work reliably for about 6-8 years. They are kept in a pretty tame environment compared to a cockpit. Sometimes we are disappointed.

If your vessel instrumentation is more than 15 years old and giving you trouble, maybe it's time...

Certified RayMarine Installer: # Ray1918

[sy_gilana]

Thanks Ramblinrod.

I installed this system in 1999. It has worked perfectly since then. My ST6000+ AP head's screen died, it was still working, but we had to look at it though slitty eyes to see anything, it went dark. I replaced the head with a 6002 recently, but it was a used one.

The rest of my electronics are B&G and installed in 1978. They are all working perfectly. All of the wiring in the boat is tinned and was sized correctly.
Most of my problems have been with Raymarine, Raytheon, Autohelm equipment.
The course computer is a Type 300. Its a 24v boat, and the voltage never gets under 24v. The Seatalk bus is powered by a dedicated power supply from a 12v battery as are the VHF/SSB.

My Fluke DMM can record low or high values. I think I should monitor the 24v side and the 12v Seatalk red wire against black, as this is what powers the head. I have watched the head during one of the events. There is no dimming, no beep, no other sign except that the screen goes from "AUTO" to "STDBY" and of course the clutch relay in the course computer clicks out.

Your input is valuable and I thank you.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

First and foremost, before mucking about with your vessel electrical system (for anything, but especially for a safety device like an AP), become intimately familiar with ABYC E11 - AC and DC Electrical Systems on Boats, and/or NMEA standards for vessel wiring and proper DC grounding methods.

Faulty installation is the # 1 cause of electrical and electronics failures. (Everything else is a very distant second.)

Most AP dropouts to standby are due to low voltage. If the condition never happens, or happens less frequently when the engine is running (with alternator charge voltage connected to the battery powering the AP), this is almost definitely a power issue.

(An off-course drop-out results in an "off-course" display and beep. These too are often due to poor installation or operator error, including extremely poor sail trim.)

Many DIY installations suffer this problem, and some "yard technician" installations also suffer.

The first step is to measure the voltage at the course computer (if equipped) and/or display head, WHILE HIGH CURRENT DC LOADS SUCH AS REFRIGERATION, INVERTERS, AND AP MOTORS ARE SWITCHING ON.

(ST4000+ and earlier models had the course computer in the display head, newer models are separate.)

In almost all cases, the culprit it too small wire, bad connections, or poor ground and grounding. (If you don't know the difference between "ground" and "grounding", go back to paragraph # 1.

For all instrumentation, the power wiring chosen should cause no more than 3% voltage drop OVER THE LOOP LENGTH. ie If your battery terminal voltage is 12.80, your voltage at the + terminal on the instrument (WRT the negative battery terminal), should be no less than 12.61 (if the device + terminal is in the middle of the power cable loop).

Note that some switches and breakers, especially when they get older (but even some brand new) can have high impedance contacts, which will cause excessive voltage drop.

STOP USING CHEAP DC DISTRIBUTION PANELS TO POWER SAFETY EQUIPMENT! (I can't say this loud enough.) Would you buy a low quality, discount parachute, from a non-reputable supplier? Your instrumentation may be just as important to your safety.

The power cable should be as short as possible while being routed properly (away from AC cables and high current DC cables).

One also must watch the cable from the battery to the distribution panel. This should be very large gauge and as short as possible.

An AP is a safety device, someday (perhaps every day), you or crew may count on it (with your life) to work properly. All connections beyond the distribution panel should be waterproof (including the connections at the display head). For older models with stab on bayonet connections, seal them with RTV (silicone sealant) after verifying good connections. For any terminal block connections, seal them the same way. (The RTV can be removed if ever needed, but properly sealed one will rarely need to, until it is time to upgrade the electronics.) Newer display models, powered by the Seatalk NG network come with waterproof connectors WHEN CONNECTED PROPERLY (twist till they click and no further).

Another (remote) possibility is EMI (electromagnetic interference). Many jump to this first, not wishing to entertain that they may have botched the power wiring. Power wiring is the problem 98% of the time.

Ensure EMC instructions are followed. Use the ferrites supplied or recommended.

Investigate EMI possibility AFTER every possible low voltage possibility has been eliminated.

Lastly, it is possible the unit could be defective. People tend to jump to this conclusion first, but if the weatherproof case has not been compromised, and the unit is less than 20 years old, it is rarely the issue.

We expect our brand new home entertainment electronics to work reliably for about 6-8 years. They are kept in a pretty tame environment compared to a cockpit. Sometimes we are disappointed.

If your vessel instrumentation is more than 15 years old and giving you trouble, maybe it's time...

Certified RayMarine Installer: # Ray1918

I don't doubt that installation errors cause many AP problems. That doesn't mean that the Ray APs are well designed and we should ignore the repeated failures that are reported year after year. I mentioned above having 3 Ray AP computers over 7 years. They all would take flyers and go to Standby on occasion. Replaced with a different vendor using exactly the same power wiring and never a loss of control that put it in standby.

As far as the off-course error being due to the operator not the AP. At times sure , but get out in big seas and run off for a few days and the boat will get majorly pushed around at times. Ray APs do not failsafe by activating the alarm and either continuing to try and steer on course or to hold the rudder straight. They do the least safe approach and go to standby.

Ray could do a lot to improve the robustness of the design.

[sailorboy1]

I think a lot of AP problems are that people don't balance/adjust their sails. It isn't really the AP's fault if it has a hard time holding course when it takes more than 5-10 degrees to do so. If you have a hard time steering you should expect the AP will also.