Raymarine linear drive type 1

[SaulTeaDog]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

I am a certified Raymarine Installer and Service Provider (and most familiar with this brand of marine electronics), but I am perfectly happy to sell and install any brand a customer desires.

This discussion reminds me of a few years back when my son was telling me why his new (and very expensive) phone was so great.

He started rhyming off all of the "really cool new things" it could do.

With each item, I said, "Yep, been doin' that on this 4 year old phone since I got it."

B&G does a great job marketing to the racing sailor.

However, I don't know if they do anything significantly new and unique compared to others.

For the particular functions you queried, Raymarine MFDs operating Lighthouse 17 firmware include start line and layline functions, which take into account the vessel polars, wind conditions, vessel speed, leeway, current drift, etc.

The user can easily set up a "Racing" display page on the MFD, including pretty much all the same data.

In fact, when people ask me which brand they should choose, here is my response...

All brands do basically the same thing.

I recommend choosing one brand and sticking with it for maximum compatibility and minimum finger-pointing when something goes wrong.

In my opinion, Raymarine has better core technology (especially autopilot and thermal imaging) than others.

Beyond that, it's really a personal "style preference" and "value for money" decision.

"Which brand appeals to you most?"

For your particular situation, by switching from Raymarine ACU 200, you are giving up a 9 axis gyro for a 2 axis fluxgate compass, which is not so great if optimum autopilot performance is important.

I'm planning to use the Raymarine EV-1 heading sensor since it's already installed. If it doesn't talk to the Simrad AC12, Simrad's precision 9 compass (not fluxgate) will be the replacement but I'm hoping the EV-1 will work so less hassle.

[travellerw]

I just did this dance recently (replacing destroyed Raymarine AP with B&G). After a bunch of research and comparing prices, I abandoned the idea of switching to a B&G AP.

Do your own research, but I found that the current generation of Raymarine AP's have more features, perform better and are cheaper than B&G. I ended up getting the complete "AP in a Box" for about $1750 and kept my original linear drive (Raymarine Evolution EV-200 Sailing Vessel Autopilot Pack).

I sliced and diced the "Raytalk" cables and converted them over to DeviceNet so I could connect the components into my standard NMEA2000 network. The rest of my network is B&G and Vesper. I'm able to send waypoints from my Zeus2 to the AP and have it follow them. However, I'm not able to control the AP from my Zeus2. Not a big deal as the AP control head is like 2 feet from the Zeus2. So far, I have been very happy with my purchase and the Raymarine AP has now steered for over 800nm. No I don't miss the "Advanced Sailing Features" the B&G AP would have provided. I prefer to actually sail my boat and mainly use the AP to hold course or heading (sometimes wind angle), which the Raymarine does fantastically. Raymarine also has "auto tack" so I can tack the boat single handed, which I never do.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by travellerw

I just did this dance recently (replacing destroyed Raymarine AP with B&G). After a bunch of research and comparing prices, I abandoned the idea of switching to a B&G AP.

Do your own research, but I found that the current generation of Raymarine AP's have more features, perform better and are cheaper than B&G. I ended up getting the complete "AP in a Box" for about $1750 and kept my original linear drive (Raymarine Evolution EV-200 Sailing Vessel Autopilot Pack).

I sliced and diced the "Raytalk" cables and converted them over to DeviceNet so I could connect the components into my standard NMEA2000 network. The rest of my network is B&G and Vesper. I'm able to send waypoints from my Zeus2 to the AP and have it follow them. However, I'm not able to control the AP from my Zeus2. Not a big deal as the AP control head is like 2 feet from the Zeus2. So far, I have been very happy with my purchase and the Raymarine AP has now steered for over 800nm. No I don't miss the "Advanced Sailing Features" the B&G AP would have provided. I prefer to actually sail my boat and mainly use the AP to hold course or heading (sometimes wind angle), which the Raymarine does fantastically. Raymarine also has "auto tack" so I can tack the boat single handed, which I never do.

I don't understand, are the "Advanced Sailing Features" part of the B&G AP or the Triton Instruments?

I would think they would work with the RM AP........

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by DotDun

I don't understand, are the "Advanced Sailing Features" part of the B&G AP or the Triton Instruments?

I would think they would work with the RM AP........

They are part of the plotter. When you have a B&G plotter and B&G AP there are some advanced things it can do (like tacking at the "perfect" time). You can also completely control the AP from the plotter. To me, its more of a "bling" thing than actually usuable.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by travellerw

They are part of the plotter. When you have a B&G plotter and B&G AP there are some advanced things it can do (like tacking at the "perfect" time). You can also completely control the AP from the plotter. To me, its more of a "bling" thing than actually usuable.

I guess my question stems from the fact that communication between a plotter and AP is nothing more than DTW, BTW, WP name, and XTE.

Hence, I can't imagine how the course computer is contributing to the calculations of the laylines.... that's completely a plotter algorithm. RM does so in their latest software release, hence B&G has nothing on them (unless I'm completing missing something).

I agree that controlling the AP from the plotter is 'bling'.

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by DotDun

I guess my question stems from the fact that communication between a plotter and AP is nothing more than DTW, BTW, WP name, and XTE.

Hence, I can't imagine how the course computer is contributing to the calculations of the laylines.... that's completely a plotter algorithm. RM does so in their latest software release, hence B&G has nothing on them (unless I'm completing missing something).

I agree that controlling the AP from the plotter is 'bling'.

Yes that is exactly true... But if you don't have a B&G plotter and AP then the plotter can't send the laylines to the AP (same is true of a Raymarine plotter and B&G AP). B&G (and Raymarine) are sending proprietary data between the 2 devices (thus you can control the AP from the plotter).

So because I have a B&G plotter and a Raymarine AP I loose those "features". Seems so silly since my plotter still shows me the laylines, I just have to dial the tacks into the AP manually (which I prefer anyway).

But but but, wait I can hear someone yelling. You also loose a bunch of data off the plotter display (like rudder angle). LOL... Ya, now I have to turn my head 1/4 degree to see it on the AP control head.

However... There is 1 feature I would really like.. Network lighting.. My AP control head does not participate in the B&G network lighting (neither did my Vesper Watchmate).

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by travellerw

Yes that is exactly true... But if you don't have a B&G plotter and AP then the plotter can't send the laylines to the AP (same is true of a Raymarine plotter and B&G AP). B&G (and Raymarine) are sending proprietary data between the 2 devices (thus you can control the AP from the plotter).

So because I have a B&G plotter and a Raymarine AP I loose those "features". Seems so silly since my plotter still shows me the laylines, I just have to dial the tacks into the AP manually (which I prefer anyway).

I'm curious what that proprietary data consists of? Tack to wind angle 50S ??

I can't imagine what else it could be......and if that's it, I don't find much value in it. Like you, I want to maintain control of AP 'stuff'.

Originally Posted by travellerw

But but but, wait I can hear someone yelling. You also loose a bunch of data off the plotter display (like rudder angle). LOL... Ya, now I have to turn my head 1/4 degree to see it on the AP control head.

Actually, RM puts rudder position on the N2k network, it's available if B&G wants to display it.

Originally Posted by travellerw

However... There is 1 feature I would really like.. Network lighting.. My AP control head does not participate in the B&G network lighting (neither did my Vesper Watchmate).

Yeah, that's a nice feature. NMEA *could* standardize it, but I'm sure the manufacturers don't want to...

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by DotDun

I'm curious what that proprietary data consists of? Tack to wind angle 50S ??

I can't imagine what else it could be......and if that's it, I don't find much value in it. Like you, I want to maintain control of AP 'stuff'.



Actually, RM puts rudder position on the N2k network, it's available if B&G wants to display it.



Yeah, that's a nice feature. NMEA *could* standardize it, but I'm sure the manufacturers don't want to...

Well damn.. Yup just turned my gear on and added the rudder position to the plotters main data page.. Slap my rear and call me sally, it does indeed display that data.

As to the proprietary data.. I have no idea what it could be. If I get a moment I could connect my laptop with Polarview and use the debug window to see what data goes across the bus (probably on plotter power up). However, I'm not sure if Polarview would ignore "non compliant" data tags. There has to be some proprietary tags as the B&G just says there is no autopilot. Its looking for some message tags on the bus!

As to the lighting network... HEY VESPER... wanna add a great feature.. Find out what each manufacturer is looking for and have the your devices translate. Oh ya, and start making other devices that keep your same quality (wind, depth, ect).

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Yup, what they said.

My understanding (which is quite limited) is that a fluxgate compass only supplies "heading" data to the course computer, whereas a 9 axis gyro also supplies data about pitch, roll, and yaw.

My experience with fluxgate compass based APs is that they have considerable trouble in significant quartering waves. I would be interested to know if the gyro based APs do a better job.

It would seem that the additional data would be useful to detect the presence, angle, and severity of quartering waves acting against the hull.

It stands to reason that this data (along with rudder angle, speed over ground, speed through water, leeway, wind speed and wind angle), could be used to better control course keeping.

[Northbound44]

Rod,
I agree with you with "All brands do basically the same thing. " but the little details make sometimes a big difference.
Per example, on Track mode, I never find a way to decrease the rate of change angle when you are off track with the Raymarine, others do.
The speed of the reversing pump steady on Raymarine , it is variable on Simard ( formerly Robertson).
Nevertheless, Raymarine is a good buy considering the quality vs the price.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Northbound44

Rod,
I agree with you with "All brands do basically the same thing. " but the little details make sometimes a big difference.
Per example, on Track mode, I never find a way to decrease the rate of change angle when you are off track with the Raymarine, others do.
The speed of the reversing pump steady on Raymarine , it is variable on Simard ( formerly Robertson).
Nevertheless, Raymarine is a good buy considering the quality vs the price.

I hear you that there may be subtle differences that some feel are important.

I believe the most recent Raymarine software (Lighthouse 17) includes an adjustable XTE correction angle.

[donradcliffe]

The main difference between a fluxgate and a 9 axis sensor is that the 9 axis gyros give rate of turn, and tilt-adjusted compass headings. The 9 axis sensor gives much better performance in a seaway. The cost difference for the 9 axis hardware is less than $10, as there is a 9 axis sensor in almost every smartphone.

9 axis sensor | eBay

http://www.atlanticrt.com/raymarine-...ing&m=Abstract