Recommendations on off the shelf nav/wind/AIS transponder?

[Chotu]

I figure everyone else knows a lot more about electronics than I do. I don’t really use them or study them. Being a tech guy from way back, I’m a little burnt out on technical things and prefer more traditional (Amish? Lol) ways of sailing.

However, this is a high tech boat and I’ll be single handing, mostly. I’ll need electronics for safety reasons.

So I figure maybe instead of spending time figuring out electronics in the 2 1/2 weeks I have left to get the boat ready for a 200nm trip to the rigger, I will ask another question on the forum.

Can anyone recommend what I should buy for electronics?

This is what I currently have:

*Old MacBook
*MacENC with free noaa raster charts
*Raymarine network with Raymarine Hydraulic autopilot/hydraulic steering (not linked to navigation)
*Standard horizon VHF with AIS (not even sure what this is, AIS wise)


Tasks I need done by the electronics:

1) navigation planning and following routes
2) autopilot steering to a heading
3) wind speed and direction to sail by the numbers on high performance cat (reefing will be important)
4) proximity alarms as redundancy to my own traditional watch keeping (AIS? RADAR?). Extra measures of collision avoidance are important to me when single handing over great distances. You get groggy and stupid.

Note: I’ve never had AIS or a working radar unit before.


Keeping in mind that I already have an extreme aversion to spending money on electronics for boats, what would be the best and cheapest way to accomplish those tasks above?

What should I buy to accomplish the tasks?

Thanks!

[SailFastTri]

For a 200nm trip?
1 navigation planning: use Navionics “Boating” app on your smart phone.
2 steering to a heading: Use the buttons on the autopilot control head to follow the routes you plan on the phone
3 wind speed and direction: Raymarine wind instrument (you said it already has Raymarine electronics. Stick with one brand and follow the display reading manually, for integration follow Raymarine networking standards.
4 proximity alarms: I doubt you can implement this AND learn how to use it successfully in the time you have.

[rslifkin]

For AIS, I'd give a good look to the AMEC B600. It's the cheapest class B+ transceiver out there and it can multiplex NMEA2000 data over USB for use with PC nav software (so no extra hardware needed to get that).

Realistically, for a one-time 200nm trip, you can get away with very little. So I'd get the things that easy to add (like AIS), but don't go crazy before this trip, that way you can take a little time to figure out what stuff you really want.

If you're looking at chartplotters, etc. it's a big question of what ecosystem you want to be in. I'm no Garmin fan, so I'd be looking at Raymarine, Simrad (which includes B&G), and Furuno.


Personally, I'd lean Furuno for their radar alone (and they have excellent chartplotters). I don't know much about the newer Raymarine radars, but the Simrad Halo stuff is very good. However, the Furuno NXT is at least as good a radar, but has a full ARPA implementation which none of the other non-commercial radars do. From what I've heard, MARPA on the Simrad stuff doesn't work great anyway (and MARPA requires far more manual effort than ARPA).

[catalystcat]

I am not sure what SH unit you have. But, if it has the AIS feature, it should be an AIS receiver (not transmitter).
That should get you the basic AIS info for nearby vessels. Some of them even display the targets.

Here is an excerpt from a relatively fancy SH VHF with AIS:
AIS / AIS SART target display: MMSI, Call Sign, Ship Name, BRG, DST, SOG and COG

The MATRIX AIS/GPS displays AIS target information (MMSI, Call Sign, Ship Name, BRG, DST, SOG and COG) allows you to contact an AIS Ship directly using DSC, shows your vessels position in relation to AIS targets and alerts you when an AIS ship may be approaching too close to your location via the Closest Point of Approach (CPA) Alarm.

So, maybe the cheapest approach is to spend some time trying to learn what you have. It won't be fancy, but might fit into your semi-luddite approach to marine electronics....

[Tupaia]

Quickest and cheapest OpenCPN (free), uses free US charts and provides input and output software links. Your existing Mac may work or a Windows (horror) laptop, You also need some form of multiplexor, either hard wired (RS232 / NMEA / USB) or wifi, to link your PC / GPS / RM together.

You don't mention what GPS you have or what Raymarine network you have. This will affect what multiplexor you need.


Much as people hate Windows, it is a straight out of the box solution and the sheer volume of development and support makes it an easier and more reliable choice than Mac or Linux especially for less technically inclined users.

Depending on your skill set a RPi running Linux would give you more for you buck but requires both software and hardware knowledge to achieve a reliable system. A 12v PC and monitor(s) maybe, the options are endless.

You need to say what Raymarine stuff you have and if it includes a GPS.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

For a 200nm trip?
1 navigation planning: use Navionics “Boating” app on your smart phone.
2 steering to a heading: Use the buttons on the autopilot control head to follow the routes you plan on the phone
3 wind speed and direction: Raymarine wind instrument (you said it already has Raymarine electronics. Stick with one brand and follow the display reading manually, for integration follow Raymarine networking standards.
4 proximity alarms: I doubt you can implement this AND learn how to use it successfully in the time you have.

No. This is just me going to get my rig put on.

I need the navigation gear to be permanent. Otherwise I would just use my handheld VHF, handheld GPS, and the auto helm with my MacBook for route planning.

I will be motoring for this trip so I won’t need wind speed up just yet. But once they arrive, it needs to go up to Mast with everything else.

I’m trying to figure out what the permanent items are to buy. Some of them will need to be bought before I leave. Especially I would like to have the wind gear ready so that I can have it go up with the mast. And anything else that needs to go up with the mast.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Quickest and cheapest OpenCPN (free), uses free US charts and provides input and output software links. Your existing Mac may work or a Windows (horror) laptop, You also need some form of multiplexor, either hard wired (RS232 / NMEA / USB) or wifi, to link your PC / GPS / RM together.

You don't mention what GPS you have or what Raymarine network you have. This will affect what multiplexor you need.


Much as people hate Windows, it is a straight out of the box solution and the sheer volume of development and support makes it an easier and more reliable choice than Mac or Linux especially for less technically inclined users.

Depending on your skill set a RPi running Linux would give you more for you buck but requires both software and hardware knowledge to achieve a reliable system. A 12v PC and monitor(s) maybe, the options are endless.

You need to say what Raymarine stuff you have and if it includes a GPS.

OK. I was leaning toward open CPN. Does it make sense to use a tablet? So that I don’t have to sit at the NAV station doing the stuff?

I don’t have a specific GPS. I usually use a USB dongle GPS that plugs into the side of the very old MacBook. Honestly it is time to replace that MacBook. I would very much prefer to use a tablet.

I actually don’t mind the horror of Windows or using Linux for this purpose because it’s only a NAV computer. It’s not something that’s on the Internet getting viruses or seeing heavy use other than nav tasks.

This is the Raymarine system that I have right now. I have this little kit that you see in this attached picture. Here is the link to the system. The EV-150 Hydraulic Autopilot System Pack

https://www.westmarine.com/raymarine...-18083592.html

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by catalystcat

I am not sure what SH unit you have. But, if it has the AIS feature, it should be an AIS receiver (not transmitter).
That should get you the basic AIS info for nearby vessels. Some of them even display the targets.

Here is an excerpt from a relatively fancy SH VHF with AIS:
AIS / AIS SART target display: MMSI, Call Sign, Ship Name, BRG, DST, SOG and COG

The MATRIX AIS/GPS displays AIS target information (MMSI, Call Sign, Ship Name, BRG, DST, SOG and COG) allows you to contact an AIS Ship directly using DSC, shows your vessels position in relation to AIS targets and alerts you when an AIS ship may be approaching too close to your location via the Closest Point of Approach (CPA) Alarm.

So, maybe the cheapest approach is to spend some time trying to learn what you have. It won't be fancy, but might fit into your semi-luddite approach to marine electronics....

Definitely. I’m away from the VHF right now and I don’t know what model it is yet either. It’s not installed. But it’s one of those very new ones that has the display that shows the AIS data in some tiny tiny little LCD.

[carlosproa]

Si I am guessing your mast will travel with you in a cradle? I mean that is not rigged?
If so, you may need to think careful about temporary installation of GPS antenna and both VHF and the AIS antenna so they are high enough and have no interference so your Class B AIS works as intended.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

For AIS, I'd give a good look to the AMEC B600. It's the cheapest class B+ transceiver out there and it can multiplex NMEA2000 data over USB for use with PC nav software (so no extra hardware needed to get that).

Realistically, for a one-time 200nm trip, you can get away with very little. So I'd get the things that easy to add (like AIS), but don't go crazy before this trip, that way you can take a little time to figure out what stuff you really want.

If you're looking at chartplotters, etc. it's a big question of what ecosystem you want to be in. I'm no Garmin fan, so I'd be looking at Raymarine, Simrad (which includes B&G), and Furuno.


Personally, I'd lean Furuno for their radar alone (and they have excellent chartplotters). I don't know much about the newer Raymarine radars, but the Simrad Halo stuff is very good. However, the Furuno NXT is at least as good a radar, but has a full ARPA implementation which none of the other non-commercial radars do. From what I've heard, MARPA on the Simrad stuff doesn't work great anyway (and MARPA requires far more manual effort than ARPA).

That AIS looks reasonable. That’s a transponder like I was asking about. I’m curious what you think about a transceiver. What would be the main disadvantage of the transceiver? I’m thinking anytime you really need AIS you are near at least one other boats right? So they can talk to each other? Forgive me if it doesn’t make sense. I have not followed this stuff.

Reasonable advice to not go too crazy before the trip up to get my mast and rigging done. However, I need to have the stuff ready to go up with the mast. Radar if that is what I’m doing, VHF antenna, anything that has to do with AIS. And I definitely, definitely need wind instruments working the first time I take the boat out sailing. This thing is not going to behave like any other boat that I have sailed before. I have to sail it by the numbers especially at first. These things need to go up when the mast is stepped. So I’m trying to get ahead of that.

OK. Radar I will have to study a little bit more I guess. In the future. I don’t know what is what. I’m not even hardly following your last paragraph. Ha ha. That’s how little I know about the stuff.

[catalystcat]

Maybe you can upgrade your system with a really big magnifying glass to increase the apparent size of the display so you can see the tiny tiny targets? It's a truly old-school approach. And you could tell people you upgraded your electronics for about $20 or so.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by carlosproa

Si I am guessing your mast will travel with you in a cradle? I mean that is not rigged?
If so, you may need to think careful about temporary installation of GPS antenna and both VHF and the AIS antenna so they are high enough and have no interference so your Class B AIS works as intended.

No.

Unfortunately, I am paying about $1 million to have it moved by truck.

Not too pleased with the cost. Considering I can move it with the pick up truck for free.

I guess we will see about that still. But it’s not going on the boat. There’s no way to place it on the boat. There are no cranes or working docks where I am right now.

It will be moved by Highway up to the Rigger’s location.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by catalystcat

Maybe you can upgrade your system with a really big magnifying glass to increase the apparent size of the display so you can see the tiny tiny targets? It's a truly old-school approach. And you could tell people you upgraded your electronics for about $20 or so.

Ha ha ha! Love it!

Yes the radio itself is acting as a class B receiver for AIS, this could actually be reasonable. As long as it has a proximity alarm. That’s all I’m really after. Just to make sure when I’m drowsy I don’t miss anything.

A very quick look at the specs for the standard horizon VHF units says that they have to plug into an external AIS? I’m a little lost.

Here’s a picture of me looking into the magnified Standard Horizon VHF display checking out the marine traffic though.





“Is that a container ship or a 420 sailing dinghy being towed by the instructor?”

“No matter. I’m a sailboat. I have right of way. Colregs and whatnot”


Me still looking at my AIS (as seen from another boat):

[catalystcat]

On a more serious note, the transceiver is a nice to have function. Some people disable the transmit function because they want privacy. (e.g., fear of piracy; general privacy concerns, concealing hot fishing spots, etc.)

As for communicating with a nearby vessel. The unit I sent to you says it "allows you to contact an AIS Ship directly using DSC." You may already have that function in your unit. Regardless, you can just use the regular VHF protocol.

As for the antenna - you could choose to use the same antenna for VHF and AIS. There are ones that are set up to do both by broadening their bandwidth to encompass both the VHF and AIS center frequencies. (Of course, there are a lot of people who abhor sharing the same antenna as it requires some compromises/signal loss and sometimes splitters that may limit your range. This is a much more involved conversation and you can find threads that discuss it exhaustively. I really don't want to restart that one, again.)

Finally, a bit of warning that you probably don't really need. Many vessels don't have AIS transmitters and some vessels (e.g., fishing vessels) sometimes don't transmit their AIS data. So, it's not foolproof. (The pros/cons/risks of relying solely on AIS is another topic that has been discussed to death in threads here. I am not advocating anything and again don't want to restart one of those arguments.)

[catalystcat]

I am not sure what your unit might have. This unit says it has integrated AIS receivers.
https://www.standardhorizon.com/inde...83&ProdID=1769

My Raymarine had that and I added the external unit to make it a transceiver.