Replacing Ship's Computer -- Atom vs Celeron?

[liveaboard60]

WRT your question about Atom vs Celeron, found this clip:

Intel Celeron: Historically Celeron was Intel's low performance CPU based on two year old mainstream CPU's, but in 2015 Celeron is really the new name Atom's. ... That is a good thing because these Celeron/Atom processors are very powerful; often more powerful than Core i3 CPU's.Oct 23, 2015

My only recommendation about boat computers is, the more the better .. I would not use the system on which I run my navigation and other shipboard instrumentation on the same system I use for day to day personal use.. And while both systems would be on the local network, the boat's computer would not have direct Internet access.. And given the cost of solid state hard drives are getting relatively cheap, it would have a solid state HD..

Then to watch movies a second system.. I have upwards of 1000 DVD's available on my local network, I can watch from any PC which can connect to the local network.. And while there are lots of great movies in the collection, I'll bet I have just as many hours of documentaries..

flk k

[nwdiver]

A boat down the dock has a pair of those tiny suckers connected to a RAID of 3 SSD drives and never has problems running nav and entertainment stuff, I use a new iPad Pro wified off my conventional garmin gear, but those tiny computers have got me thinking............

[liveaboard60]

Originally Posted by blu3534

Good luck [1] with that /s. I don't understand how an owner with a relatively expensive boat can be that cheap with a board computer. 120? Sorry, you get the quality (read trash) worth 120. I'm not impressed...

Blu3534
I hear what you are saying and in so many ways couldn't agree with you more about boaters "cheaping" out..

However in the case of computers these days, they really are cheap.. After all, except for a few off board connections, all they are is a chip or two.. The guts of an Android/Linux based computers can be had for under $25..

What I am sad to see with the Windows 10 based PC's, is the lack of USB 3 ports.. flk k

[Three Sisters]

I guess we do the best we can.

With computers the state-of-the-art, just out, new technology, fastest, coolest computer today will soon be left by the wayside as an outdated...fill-in-the-blanks. Sometimes, within months of purchase.

And now a new USB interface is in the making. We've had Sata I, II and now III. You know the drill.

[Paul L]

I use a mini-itx setup for my nav station computer. It gives you a lot of flexibility, at a slightly higher cost. You can swap out the CPU board every few years when you want to upgrade. Some examples are here Mini-Box.com - Mini-ITX | Motherboards | Power Supplies | Car PC

[barnakiel]

We have two fanless Celerons netbooks here. 11 inchers, one ssd (mmc) the other hdd. One 8.1 the other 10. One Acer, the other Toshiba.

They are about 2 years apart but you cannot tell any difference.

The ssd one is silent, the hdd one is not. The ssd one does not sport a drive led, which is bad.

In retrospective, I would not buy the Acer one again. It is crap. The Toshiba seems the better choice. Acer was 180 USD (2015), Toshiba was 280 USD (2017).

We also have an ages old 10 incher from Asus. This one is by far best made and never ever gave us any headache. Buy at least an Asus, if you care.

As far as the processors are concerned, somehow most of the taken up resources seem to be always taken up by Windows. I am not sure why Microsoft does this but I am sure this is the case.

In any case both machines run everything I want and this includes virtual machines with Linux, emulators, compilers, multiple wx routing software and graphic programs, etc. Probnoblem. Not lightening fast *esp if you process a 24Mpix raw image file* but otherwise sure and steady.

This one now I am on is a Celeron N2840 and 2GB memory. Good enough for anything. The Toshiba is newer, faster, more powerful, but you can't tell any difference. Thank you Microsoft.

Cheers,
b.

[Sandero]

Dockhead.... this is probably OT...

My toshiba laptop kinda fell apart... I decided no more laptops and went to the NUC. I totally love it.

It has a solid state hard drive... tiny footprint... mounted on a secure lift off mount in a locker near the nav station. I have a 22: HP small bezel flat screen for a monitor. I set up a 12>19v buck transformer.... easy peasy and no more battery charging and these two are quite low draw. I have extension cables so I can move the display virtually anywhere in the boat. The key board is blue tooth as is the mouse. I got an external 4.0 USB dock where I park USB drives dedicated to various categories like... WORK, BOAT, PIX, software... I use these to work on the files at home.... I can transport 250GB in my pocket! We don't watch TV but use the set up to stream vids and flix. I can even view navionics on a 22" monitor from my bunk! We gave our boat smart TV away... it was only slightly larger than the HP which is more than adequate for the boat and the sort of watching we do.... pretty close to the screen. We can even watch content in the cockpit!

The nuc is so small I can take it home easily. For work / site visits the LG tab works fine... the screen only slightly smaller than the laptop.

The NUC is not cheap, but it's not expensive and you can configure one to your liking. No moving parts... solid state drive... perfect for the boat. We'll see how long it lasts. For now it's super. Highly recommended.

[conchaway]

If I had to go through all that, I'd never sail again.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by liveaboard60

WRT your question about Atom vs Celeron, found this clip:

Intel Celeron: Historically Celeron was Intel's low performance CPU based on two year old mainstream CPU's, but in 2015 Celeron is really the new name Atom's. ... That is a good thing because these Celeron/Atom processors are very powerful; often more powerful than Core i3 CPU's.Oct 23, 2015

My only recommendation about boat computers is, the more the better .. I would not use the system on which I run my navigation and other shipboard instrumentation on the same system I use for day to day personal use.. And while both systems would be on the local network, the boat's computer would not have direct Internet access.. And given the cost of solid state hard drives are getting relatively cheap, it would have a solid state HD..

Then to watch movies a second system.. I have upwards of 1000 DVD's available on my local network, I can watch from any PC which can connect to the local network.. And while there are lots of great movies in the collection, I'll bet I have just as many hours of documentaries..

flk k

Thanks.

I agree about not using the ship's computer for ordinary PC stuff. I have my company laptop for my work, and for general computing. I have a tablet for reading stuff on Kindle or online.

But I do use ship's computer for AV use -- because it is permanently connected to my large bulkhead mounted AV monitor and soon to the boat's stereo system. I think this is a compatible use.

I do not use the ship's computer for primary navigation, and would not be comfortable using consumer electronics for that, whether or not functions are shared. I have two B&G Zeus chart plotters for that purpose.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Sandero

Dockhead.... this is probably OT...

My toshiba laptop kinda fell apart... I decided no more laptops and went to the NUC. I totally love it.

It has a solid state hard drive... tiny footprint... mounted on a secure lift off mount in a locker near the nav station. I have a 22: HP small bezel flat screen for a monitor. I set up a 12>19v buck transformer.... easy peasy and no more battery charging and these two are quite low draw. I have extension cables so I can move the display virtually anywhere in the boat. The key board is blue tooth as is the mouse. I got an external 4.0 USB dock where I park USB drives dedicated to various categories like... WORK, BOAT, PIX, software... I use these to work on the files at home.... I can transport 250GB in my pocket! We don't watch TV but use the set up to stream vids and flix. I can even view navionics on a 22" monitor from my bunk! We gave our boat smart TV away... it was only slightly larger than the HP which is more than adequate for the boat and the sort of watching we do.... pretty close to the screen. We can even watch content in the cockpit!

The nuc is so small I can take it home easily. For work / site visits the LG tab works fine... the screen only slightly smaller than the laptop.

The NUC is not cheap, but it's not expensive and you can configure one to your liking. No moving parts... solid state drive... perfect for the boat. We'll see how long it lasts. For now it's super. Highly recommended.

Well, good for you, and this is very similar to how I'll be setting up my computer.

The NUC is fine -- that's what I was looking at last year.

I didn't go with it only because the new Atom/Celeron powered nano computers use less power (13 watts maximum!!), don't have fans, and are powerful enough. Otherwise they are exactly the same as the NUC. Oh, and they're even smaller. And extremely cheap -- 120 euros.

This is the one I bought:

https://www.reviews4u.co.uk/bqeel-z8...-black-review/

[Sandero]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

https://www.reviews4u.co.uk/bqeel-z8...-black-review/

looks good... I don't think the nuc has a fan.... the even smaller size is not an issue.... the power use may be.... I believe the nuc has more ports and supports 2 monitors...

NUC draw is very low.

[Mithril Bham]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Wow, the price is right! I think that's a no lose proposition. Thanks for the tip.

Looks like Mac Mini which I use on boat & love although more pricey. Need to figure out monitor etc.

[barnakiel]

Medion makes very decent NUC like units that sport SSDs now.

These boxes come complete with a system and a 2 year warranty and all you need is a display of your choice and some input devices (BT keyboards / mice, you name it).

Boxes of this or NUC style are way better than netbooks - if you ever wish to upgrade the drive, the memory or some other internals. Imho they are great choice onboard.

Also Asus makes them. Often the name is 'mini-PC' or similar vein.

https://www.asus.com/Mini-PCs/VivoPC...pecifications/

Mini-PC-System MEDION® AKOYA® S1503 D

Etc.

These are good stuff when you do not want a netbook/laptop style PC.

I use netbooks when I build onboard nav systems for my clients BUT I would use a NUC or a mini PC if I were required to do so.

Cheers,
b.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Medion makes very decent NUC like units that sport SSDs now.

These boxes come complete with a system and a 2 year warranty and all you need is a display of your choice and some input devices (BT keyboards / mice, you name it).

Boxes of this or NUC style are way better than netbooks - if you ever wish to upgrade the drive, the memory or some other internals. Imho they are great choice onboard.

Also Asus makes them. Often the name is 'mini-PC' or similar vein.

https://www.asus.com/Mini-PCs/VivoPC...pecifications/

Mini-PC-System MEDION® AKOYA® S1503 D

Etc.

These are good stuff when you do not want a netbook/laptop style PC.

I use netbooks when I build onboard nav systems for my clients BUT I would use a NUC or a mini PC if I were required to do so.

Cheers,
b.

Very nice! I like the Asus one very much.

It only costs 223 euros:

https://www.alzashop.com/asus-vivopc...z-d4578707.htm


Big difference to what I bought is (a) Celeron instead of Atom; and (b) it has drive bays for internal hard drives; (c) many USB ports; (d) second display interface is DisplayPort instead of VGA.

So it's considerably more "high end" than what I bought, but I would probably not spend 100 euros on the difference, frankly, for my purposes. I'm happy with using an external hard drive, which I already have, and I don't think I really need the other stuff.

For someone who wants to reuse an old hard drive, or doesn't already have an external hard drive, it would be fantastic.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

(...)

So it's considerably more "high end" than what I bought, but I would probably not spend 100 euros on the difference, frankly, for my purposes.

(...)

Yep. I too think price differences are mostly driven by branding, distribution costs, etc. Actually, the internals seem all off the shelf components and used universally across the market. So as long you you get the specs you want you are always better off using the extra 100 bucks for whatever peripherals or software you need, or for cold beer / flowers for your partner.

BTW re peripherals: I have recently discovered that our Win 8.1 and 10 machines have odd management of BT mouse and keyboard. Later I found the same happens to other (some, not all) BT stuff - speakers, sensors, etc. I have investigated and found this is due to how power is managed in an off the box Win 10 installation. To my horror, I had to plug in a plain USB mouse to sort this out. The lesson: if your keyboard and or mouse are wireless, still keep at least one old beaten up usb mouse around.

Hugs,
b.