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goboatingnow · 28-10-2013, 09:41

While I agree with everything you say. I spoke to our rescue MRCC and while non registered Epirbs can cause issues. There is no evidence of any particular delay in SAR response. In shore a rescue asset will be dispatched usually a helicopter , offshore once the doppler fly past occurs the nearest rescue asset will be tasked

Dave

delmarrey · 28-10-2013, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Frankly, when Delorme says that pressing the SOS button is like dialing 911 that is a bold-faced lie. It is not. It is more like calling a trusted friend and asking him to call 911 on your behalf. With either Delorme or SPOT, you are sending a message to a private organization, which then passes the message along to the proper governmental organizations.

I have no doubt that these private organizations are quite competent at passing the message along, and that your rescue will begin very nearly as soon as--if not JUST as soon as--it would if you sent the distress call any other way. I am not disparaging these private organizations. Nonetheless, I think it important to understand that you are working with a middle-man in the process.

With an EPIRB, world wide SAR resources are directly monitoring the signals that come through, and there is no middle-man.

You pays your money and you makes your choice.

With inReach one a can also add in a local emergency #/email (USCG/Harbor Patrol/SAR) in the contact #'s so one has multiple sources all at once. There is a set of preprogramed messages that can be sent at the touch of a button.

i.e.>>> https://www.cospas-sarsat.org/index....id=178&lang=en

rebel heart · 28-10-2013, 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthurs2

Thank you again - apparently the famous sailboat that went down not long ago did contact "spot SOS" but no-one is clear why emergency personnel did not try to locate them - Emergency personnel claim they were not contacted so I was just curious what actually transpires vs. a regular EPIRB which is direct.
Thanks for your input it is greatly appreciated - I think I will call both and scrutinize their processes. Arthur

EPIRBs are built like tanks. It's comparing a Corolla vs an up-armored Humvee. They both can do most anything but which would you rather take into hell.

ka4wja · 28-10-2013, 13:37

Dave,
While the US, UK, etc. MRCC's do wonderful jobs responding to EPIRB alerts, using AMVER, tasking rescue assets, etc....that is not always the case elsewhere....
But not wanting to debate this to no avail, I'll not worry about it...

And, Dave, while you and I usually agree...

Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

While I agree with everything you say. I spoke to our rescue MRCC and while non registered Epirbs can cause issues. There is no evidence of any particular delay in SAR response. In shore a rescue asset will be dispatched usually a helicopter , offshore once the doppler fly past occurs the nearest rescue asset will be tasked

In MY OPINION, it is not a good idea to imply that EPIRB registration is "optional" or that "no evidence of delay is shown", etc...

Because there IS evidence that delays HAVE HAPPENED, CONTINUE TO HAPPEN IN PRESENT DAY, and WILL MOST PROBABLY CONTINUE TO HAPPEN...(sorry about the CAPS, but I wish to be absolute here..)

If you read some of the referenced material, you WILL find actual accounts of both delays AND total lack of SAR response, when there has been no shoreside contact (which occurs only if the EPIRB is properly registered and renewed), and/or no other distress confirmation!!

Even though the US MRCC (and UK MRCC) might be johnny-on-the-spot, this is simply not the case elsewhere....and further the US NOAA and USCG are as adamant as COSPAS-SARSAT about EPIRB registration!!!

And, finally, since it's FREE and takes only a couple minutes of a vessel owner's time (every two years), I cannot fathom anyone saying that it doesn't matter!!!

My apologies for sounding so strident about this (and, Dave it actually surprises me that you would imply something like this is okay to do!), but it is a VERY important aspect of owning an EPIRB!!!
And, it's FREE and take only a couple minutes....and could end up saving your life someday....

So, EVERYONE PLEASE REGISTER YOUR EPIRB'S!!!!

Fair winds to all...

John
s/v Annie Laurie

goboatingnow · 28-10-2013, 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ka4wja

Dave,
While the US, UK, etc. MRCC's do wonderful jobs responding to EPIRB alerts, using AMVER, tasking rescue assets, etc....that is not always the case elsewhere....
But not wanting to debate this to no avail, I'll not worry about it...

And, Dave, while you and I usually agree...
In MY OPINION, it is not a good idea to imply that EPIRB registration is "optional" or that "no evidence of delay is shown", etc...

Because there IS evidence that delays HAVE HAPPENED, CONTINUE TO HAPPEN IN PRESENT DAY, and WILL MOST PROBABLY CONTINUE TO HAPPEN...(sorry about the CAPS, but I wish to be absolute here..)

If you read some of the referenced material, you WILL find actual accounts of both delays AND total lack of SAR response, when there has been no shoreside contact (which occurs only if the EPIRB is properly registered and renewed), and/or no other distress confirmation!!

Even though the US MRCC (and UK MRCC) might be johnny-on-the-spot, this is simply not the case elsewhere....and further the US NOAA and USCG are as adamant as COSPAS-SARSAT about EPIRB registration!!!

And, finally, since it's FREE and takes only a couple minutes of a vessel owner's time (every two years), I cannot fathom anyone saying that it doesn't matter!!!

My apologies for sounding so strident about this (and, Dave it actually surprises me that you would imply something like this is okay to do!), but it is a VERY important aspect of owning an EPIRB!!!
And, it's FREE and take only a couple minutes....and could end up saving your life someday....

So, EVERYONE PLEASE REGISTER YOUR EPIRB'S!!!!

Fair winds to all...

John
s/v Annie Laurie

No I fully agree with you , everyone should register their Epirbs.

Note that not all countries Epirb registries are free and some are relatively complex requiring call sign and or mmsi programming into the Epirb , which means you must have a ships radio station license.

Dave

Arthurs2 · 28-10-2013, 14:38

Thanks so much - actually we have always had epirbs (and still do) and very diligent about keeping it up to date and cking batteries etc. etc. but I am always the person to have backup and that is why I was referring to the Spot system or any such system - its always nice to have. Just like we have our Ray Marine chart plotter - we also have our ipad garmin charts for backup and of course we ALWAYS do hourly positioning with our charts and have three hand held GPS systems so we really do understand.

Our main enquiry was a "sat phone" and their costs. Some have the SOS button just like our spot does and I was commenting on the accuracy of this. I know in actual fact the positioning is more accurate with Spot (2ft vs. 1/2 mile with EPIRB) but of course the actual relay communication is via a third party as we all know and I was concerned about that for products like Spot. I have really appreciated all the feedback and realize its not an extra benefit really (nice to have) but the clarity of the reception would be the issue with sat phones and reliability but from what I hear they all operate under the same satilites - at least I think they do. Any comment on that?

rebel heart · 28-10-2013, 15:39

Epirbs have GPS chips (usually), the 1/2 mile accuracy comment isn't true.

Arthurs2 · 28-10-2013, 16:11

loved your video! will verify the 1/2 mile discrepancy...

Cormorant · 28-10-2013, 17:08

This Wikipedia page explains the EPIRB accuracy question:
Distress radiobeacon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A few quotes:

--"The oldest, cheapest (US$ 139) beacons sent an anonymous warble at 121.5 MHz. They are no longer monitored by satellite. They could be detected by satellite over only 60% of the earth, required up to 6 hours for notification, located within 20 km (12 mi) (search area of 1200 km²) and were anonymous. "

--"An intermediate technology 406 MHz beacon (now mostly obsolete in favor of GPS enabled units) has worldwide coverage, locates within 2 km (12.5 km² search area), notifies kin and rescuers in 2 hours maximum (46 min average), and has a serial number to look up phone numbers, etc. This can take up to two hours because it has to use moving weather satellites to locate the beacon. "

--"The most modern 406 MHz beacons with GPS (US$ $300+ in 2010) track with a precision of 100 meters in the 70% of the world closest to the equator, and send a serial number so the responsible authority can look up phone numbers to notify the registrator (e.g. next-of-kin) in four minutes. The GPS system permits stationary, wide-view geosynchronous communications satellites to enhance the doppler position received by low Earth orbit satellites. EPIRB beacons with built-in GPS are usually called GPIRBs, for GPS Position-Indicating Radio Beacon or Global Position-Indicating Radio Beacon.
However, rescue cannot begin until a doppler track is available. The COSPAS-SARSAT specifications say [6] that a beacon location is not considered "resolved" unless at least two doppler tracks match or a doppler track confirms an encoded (GPS) track. One or more GPS tracks are not sufficient."

(There's a lot more, for the truly curious. . . .)

Arthurs2 · 28-10-2013, 17:35

Whoa! thats very impressive sounding but quite frankly not sure what it all means in laymans terms

denverd0n · 29-10-2013, 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthurs2

I know in actual fact the positioning is more accurate with Spot (2ft vs. 1/2 mile with EPIRB)...

No, I'm sorry, but you cannot "know" this, because it is not true. The SPOT device contains a GPS receiver. EPIRBs also contain a GPS receiver. They use the same sort of receivers, getting signals from the very same satellites. It is simply not possible for the SPOT to be significantly more accurate than any modern EPIRB (or any other modern GPS receiver for that matter).

Now, I suppose if you are comparing this year's SPOT with an EPIRB from 30 years ago, you would find the SPOT to be more accurate. Hardly a fair comparison, though.

delmarrey · 30-10-2013, 09:51

Just an update/FYI, when you use the SOS button on the inReach it goes to GEOS>>>>. GEOS | Supported Devices

smac999 · 30-10-2013, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthurs2

Thank you again - apparently the famous sailboat that went down not long ago did contact "spot SOS" but no-one is clear why emergency personnel did not try to locate them - Emergency personnel claim they were not contacted so I was just curious what actually transpires vs. a regular EPIRB which is direct.
Thanks for your input it is greatly appreciated - I think I will call both and scrutinize their processes. Arthur

I have set off a spot and had a coast guard heli over head within 1.5 hours. though we were fairly close to a base. and in Canada.

I'm sure response in some areas around the would suck no matter what you were using.

Snore · 30-10-2013, 15:39

This question comes up from time to time. So I will repost the "real-world" hands-on experiences I have had.

At one point when I was kayak racing, ACR was a gear sponsor. I had the privilege of getting a tour of their ft. lauderdale factory. ACR builds the devices like someone's lie depended on it. Add part A to part B and test. Add part C and test, etc. I have never had to pop the switch on my PLB, but I am confident that when I do it will work. There are no user maintenance items- they don't want the user buggering it up.

While doing a race circumnavigating Florida, we were required to use SPOT devices to track our wear abouts. After three weeks on the deck of a kayak the device failed. The apparent failure point was in the battery door. There have been numerous documented failures of SPOT devices. SPOT's website is careful not to call it a rescue device.

So one has to ask themselves, you spent big bucks for a boat. weather gear">Foul weather gear costs $4-500. You name it on a sailboat and it is big bucks. Isn't your life worth the cost of a full blown EPIRB if you are going offshore. Or a PLB if you are coastal?

Okay... Rant over.