Spot X Two way Sat messenger

[Fore and Aft]

Just curious to see if many yachties are using this messenger? Is it better than Iridium Go? It looks like it is a bit cheaper than the Iridium?
Cheers

[ka4wja]

Fore and Aft,
From my personal experience, there are few sailors using it...

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Just curious to see if many yachties are using this messenger? Is it better than Iridium Go? It looks like it is a bit cheaper than the Iridium?
Cheers

Here are some details:

First off, please know that the "GO" and "Spot Messenger" are two different animals, and do two different things...(see further details)...oh, and they use two different types of satellite networks...


1) There are some sailors using some "SPOT" services (possibly including this messenger), but there is no question that the Iridium Network (and any third-party Iridium clients, such as DeLorme/InReach) is far superior than services using the GlobalStar network (which is what SPOT uses).


2) Please note that the IridiumGO uses your existing smart-phone (and the Apps you place on it) to send/receive very low-speed data / messages.....it is not really used "stand-alone" messenger....although you can send an "SOS" message to Iridium via the GO itself, to use the GO as you desire, you need a smartphone connected to the GO (via Wi-Fi).



3) The coverage of Iridium is truly worldwide, pole-to-pole, land, sea, air....everywhere...and while the data speed for IridiumGO (and handheld Iridium phones) is very slow (2.4kb) compared to the still slow but somewhat faster (9.6kb) speed of GlobalStar, Iridium works the same whether you're on land, near-shore, or in middle of an ocean, as you are always in view of several Iridium satellites...

With GlobalStar, you must be in view of at least one of their satellites AND that satellite must be in view of a GlobalStar ground station, in order for your message/call to go thru....(just recently the failure of their ground station in eastern Med, Turkey I think....has disrupted GlobalStar coverage over a vast region of Africa and Arabia)

In my experience (I have Iridium, and have personally watched and heard reports from others attempting to use GlobalStar in areas where they are supposed to have coverage), GlobalStar coverage isn't quite up-to what their maps show....and especially when near the edges of the coverage maps, you must use care to get your antenna positioned correctly and even then you may not have a connection....With Iridium, as long as your antenna is in the clear (clear view of the sky), you have signal/coverage....(fyi, I've used Iridium in middle of ocean and middle of "the Outback, in Australia...and it works)

SPOT X Messenger GlobalStar coverage (according to GlobalStar), have a look here:




And, for GlobalStar Phone Coverage (according to GlobalStar), have a look here:



So, depending on what you desire messaging for?? And where you plan to be sailing? Whether you desire voice call service (get a phone for that, not a "messenger", nor the "GO"....the "GO" just doesn't do voice calling very well) The choices are wide....
{Fyi, for the sake of caution and planning, assume your coverage with the SPOT X to be similar to that of the GlobalStar phone coverage....and if that would be good for you, then assume your SPOT X will work well for your area...for example, if you're sailing coastal Australia and/or the Tasman to NZ, the SPOT X should be fine....but, if you're heading farther off, across an ocean, etc., then look at Iridium...or even not going sat comm at all?}

Of course, depending on what you desire this for, you may really not even need it at all....

Hope this helps.

Fair winds..

John

[Fore and Aft]

Thanks for that John. I have always used Iridium in the desert and had no problems. The Spot X messenger is fairly cheap and I was curious to see if anyone was using it on the water.

It will be interesting to see if Spot keeps getting better and more people start to use it?

Cheers

[Pelagic]

Hi John, very informative comparison and a good primer for me to decide what offshore coms to buy for my 2021 voyage from Philippines to Dutch Hbr. Alleutions.

I have and used SSB in Asia/Pacific, but best weather predictions is my highest priority and cheap family text updates, secondary.

What I'm looking for is suggestions on managing Iridium to minimize unwanted comms and maximize reliability for this Polar route.

Asked a few questions in your notes below.

Originally Posted by ka4wja

Fore and Aft,


1) ..... there is no question that the Iridium Network (and any third-party Iridium clients, such as DeLorme/InReach) is far superior than services using the GlobalStar network (which is what SPOT uses).

Then I will go with Iridium for the 3 month voyage and hope I can restrict fees for that time frame only

2) Please note that the IridiumGO uses your existing smart-phone (and the Apps you place on it) to send/receive very low-speed data / messages.....it is not really used "stand-alone" messenger....although you can send an "SOS" message to Iridium via the GO itself, to use the GO as you desire, you need a smartphone connected to the GO (via Wi-Fi).

My Smart Phone receives a lot of unnecessary data if on passage. All I want is weather downloads to my TimeZero and OpenCPN programs for navigating around Lows. Plus a daily single line positional note sent to 2 emails
Is there a simpler way to manage this offshore, by just using a handset connection, to minimize data costs?


3) The coverage of Iridium is truly worldwide, pole-to-pole, land, sea, air....everywhere...and while the data speed for IridiumGO (and handheld Iridium phones) is very slow (2.4kb) Iridium works the same whether you're on land, near-shore, or in middle of an ocean, as you are always in view of several Iridium satellites...

This is my route which takes me above the Alleutians. Do I have good coverage all thru?

Hope this helps.

Fair winds..

John

[belizesailor]

Ive not used the SpotX, but I have used other devices based on the flawed GlobalStar network, including GlobalStar satt phone and regular Spot. Ive had issues with both in remote areas which were officially in the GlobalStar service area.

Ive owned Delorme InReach, which uses the Iridium network, for a few years now and have been extremely pleased with it.

[svmobert]

I use and sell SPOT, SPOTX, InReach, Iridium Go, GlobalStar, Inmarsat, Iridium Certus, etc.

I don't sell very many SPOTX's primarily because as someone operating in the PacNW, many of my customers are headed south and west across the Pacific, where the SPOT-X lacks coverage, so for those people who want a satellite messenger, their chosen cruising area pushes them to the InReach.

You should understand that satellite messengers (SPOT, SPOTX, InReach, Zoleo) are all far more limited compared to a satellite phone, Iridium Go, etc.

If you actually want to download weather data to TimeZero Navigator, a messenger won't do that. A messenger merely allows you to send/receive short text messages, send your position, request an SOS, and do a few small other things depending on the unit, such as request a basic wind direction, strength, wave height type forecase (text only) for a specific Lat/Lon (InReach).

For TimeZero Navigator you need either an internet connection, or email, both of which require at least a Satellite Phone or Hotspot (ie: Iridium Go). If you plan to stay within North America (no more than 200nm off the coast, and NOT in the inside passage) then you may also consider an Inmarsat Fleet One, since that has an unlimited data plan in the Americas for ~ $230/mo and there is no 12 month contract. It's 70X faster than an Iridium Go as well and can pull down GRIBs super easy with TZ, and no special software integration is required. But Inmarsat has spotty coverage in the inside passage and other areas where you have high land masses and high latitude simultaneously.

That said, with the upcoming TZNav 4.1 you will be able to download GRIBs with Iridium Go as well, using a built in Iridium Go integration in TZ. You will need to limit the size of the download to 100KB or less since the Iridium GO is so slow but it works.

We (Sea-Tech) offer a flex plan for Iridium GO which means you can sign up for unlimited data/sms Iridium Go plan, then suspend it for just $5/month during months you aren't using it, then resume it as needed. No extra fee for suspend/resume switches, just the monthly. With typical Iridium SIMs you activate a SIM and you either keep it running or if you cancel that SIM is dead and you have to get a new SIM for the next time you want to activate.

We also have Satellite Phone plans with the same Flex suspendable service, and they also give you a domestic USA satellite phone number for people to call/text you and incoming calls are free for the caller and you on all but the lowest plan. Same $5/Mo suspend option.

In any case, to your original question...

If you are looking for just a satellite messenger, the SPOTX does work well within the coverage map shown, I have one, and a SPOT-Trace and have used it a bunch. The InReach uses Iridium satellites so it has 100% coverage. If you are worried about coverage and perfect network reliability, then InReach or Zoleo. Zoleo is less expensive to buy and use compared with InReach AND it has a follow me email address that works over cell/wifi AND the Zoleo satellite device so you can continue conversations with people from land to sea.

If you need weather data for TZ, or email, or phone calls, then you need at least a Satellite Phone with Optimizer OR an Iridium Go. You can also try the new GlobalStar SatFi2 RAS (installed into the boat version) as long as the coverage map for SatFi2 meets your needs. It's on their Gen2 satellites, and is much improved over even just a year ago. And it's 30X faster than a Go, and again doesn't really need any special software integration. There's even an analog phone version that has a desk phone with dialtone that rings when someone calls it. $150/Mo for unlimited service (voice, data, and SMS) right now and the cost isn't much more than an Iridium Go with an installation kit.

Hope that helps.

Capt. Richard Anderson
sv Mobert
Sea-Tech Systems

[Pelagic]

Thanks Richard
Sent you PM with my contact so that I can review your products and plans for my needs
Tnx. Nick

[belizesailor]

This update just posted by BoatWatch.org should help you decide:

1400 hrs 17 May 2020 UPDATE FROM RCC MIAMI

We have very good news regarding the S/V HOBO GIRL.

It was learned that on 13 May 2020 at 1515 hrs UTC, Capt Marek aboard the S/V HOBO GIRL, contacted the commercial ship ECO NEBULA in position 31 11.1 N / 070 10 W via VHF radio. He told the ship that he was ok, the boat is ok, and is headed to Bermuda to make some repairs.

He asked the ship to place a call to a friend telling him he is ok, and that his lack of communication was because his SPOT X device has failed to communicate with the Globalstar satellites.

The USCG RCC Miami advised they are continuing to search the area from where the S/V HOBO GIRL spoke to the tanker, to Bermuda. The authorities in Bermuda are also on the lookout for his arrival.

Based on speaking to his friends, they believe Capt Marek will have benign sailing conditions, and reach Bermuda on Friday 22 May 2020 or Saturday 23 May 2020.

[barnakiel]

It is a very good tracker.


However, Globalsat network seems to offer less than perfect coverage IF you are in the deep offshore regions of the oceans.


b.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

(...)


his SPOT X device has failed to communicate with the Globalstar satellites.


(...)

This also happens to Iridium or Inmarsat based devices. Remember Niña.


barnakiel

[belizesailor]

Will look up Niña, but the cases I know of are rare vs anything Globalstar based.

In my personal experience, Ive had lots of service failures on both Globalstar phones & Spot devices. Never on InReach (except where it was not physically possible to get a signal out...like way up a narrow slot canyon).

[barnakiel]

No need to look too far.


On our Atlantic loop 2017/-18 we waited for minutes to get the In-Reach to lock on.


True, there were no dropped messages. Still, waiting for the device to lock on 'endlessly' (beyond 5 minutes in many cases) seems a way sub prime in a device that can be required to help you in a dire emergency.


And I am 100% positive that getting the lock in an open cockpit out at sea could be seen as the easiest thing to achieve!


So, I investigated a bit, and I heard that "it was possibly due to your boat's movement being rapid and erratic'.


So much for possible supremacy of one device or network over any other.


My take: use the Spot device IN THE AREAS AS SHOWN ABOVE. It is a good device and works well where it does.



And when one device is not good in an area (that was clearly labeled as no/poor coverage by its maker) do not assume that other devices WILL deliver stellar performance. There, or anywhere. They might.



They are all just that, toys, each and every with its individual and not always foreseen limitations.



b.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

On our Atlantic loop 2017/-18 we waited for minutes to get the In-Reach to lock on.

True, there were no dropped messages. Still, waiting for the device to lock on 'endlessly' (beyond 5 minutes in many cases) seems a way sub prime in a device that can be required to help you in a dire emergency.

I'd consider 5 minutes not that bad. When I last checked the docs, the device will attempt to send the message immediately, but if that fails will then re-attempt at the next scheduled interval (I think 10 minutes might be the default).

The SPOT has a similar cycle; it will attempt sending thrice over a 20 minute period (if it gets a GPS fix, otherwise nothing).

When using these devices one shouldn't have expectations of instant response times. Yes, any rescue might take days to arrive, but even processing and confirming the initial signal will take time.

[boatman61]

My Spot Gen3 has been great with constant tracking though I tend to only have it on 15mins at a time 5 or 6 times a day to save batteries..
When I enquired about upgrading to the Messenger model I was told it does not cover Europe and the Med.

[barnakiel]

I agree. Spot is as good as any other device.


It should simply not be used in areas clearly indicated by the manufacturer as low signal or no signal.


Elsewhere, it works just as well as anything else does.


b.