SSB transceiver

[ka4wja]

Boomer,
If your Grundig radio (what you have using) has been working well for you, and you really are comfortable with it (and being a "bare bones" cruiser as well), it is doubtful that you're going to be significantly happier should you "upgrade" to a "better" receiver (whether built-in to a transceiver or not)....
{Please note this is contrary to my usual recommendations of using a "better" radio / easier-to-use radio....but as I wrote above, IF what you write is true/accurate, then you may get more bang-for-your-buck elsewhere...}

Making other improvements on-board actually may make more of a difference to you!!
Such as reducing/eliminating on-board RFI, and/or improving whatever you're using for an antenna, and/or learning more about radiowave propagation in order to better select the times/freqs for weather broadcasts.....
(ALL of these will improve your reception of weather broadcasts, typically to a much greater extent than just changing receivers...)

If your Grundig radio is having problems and/or is unreliable, and/or you were just looking for a "new" radio that would do the same (or better) than what you've got now, I'd recommend the Sangean 909 series radios...(or a Katio, etc.)
Have a look here....
Amazon.com: Sangean ATS-909X AM/FM/LW/SW World Band Receiver: Electronics



Please see the details below and the links to other threads that are DIRECTLY on-point to your situation/questions....


And, please have a look here for times/frequencies of US east coast offshore VOICE weather, SW N. Atl. VOICE weather, Caribbean VOICE weather, etc...
USCG HF Voice


Also, see my specific comments/recommendations here in red....

Originally Posted by Boomer8654

I am a bare bones cruiser.....really......used to wearing a headlamp and using oil lamps instead of worrying about wiring interior lights......

I have been using a grundig short wave/SSB receiver, using AA batteries for a long time to get weather updates and time. I have read that a SSB transceiver receives better than a SSB receiver and that I would be able to listen in on more weather information.
Usually this IS the case, and usually I'd recommend this...but, as your existing radio is working for you, and until you tackle these things (reducing/eliminating on-board RFI, and/or improving whatever you're using for an antenna, and/or learning more about radiowave propagation in order to better select the times/freqs for weather broadcasts), a new radio might not do much for you...

Please tell us what you are currently using for an antenna???


Can someone who is knowledgeable in this area......just give me a few keywords, brand or model, to guide me so I can buy a very basic unit to listen to weather and info for cruisers?
Although I'm not certain whether this (my usual recommendations) are really what you need...
In general the brands to look for (in order of preference):
--- in Marine SSB HF transceivers are Icom, Furuno, or Kenwood (or even some Yaesu/Vertex)....
--- in HF ham transceivers are Icom, Kenwood, or Yaesu

Specific models:
Marine SSB: Icom M-802, Icom M-700Pro, Icom M-710....Furuno FS-1570 / 1575, etc...
Ham HF: Icom IC-735, Icom IC-756, Kenwood TS-480, etc..


I am borderline antisocial......I don't want to talk to anyone. I don't want to send email......receive weather faxes, or transmit in anyway, etc......I just want better weather reports.
Not wanting to receive weather faxes??? Why not???
The US NWS/NOAA wefax's are considered to be the Gold Standard of offshore/hi-seas weather info/forecasts....but, if all you want is Voice Weather Broadcasts, that's your choice....

Originally Posted by Boomer8654

I have cruised the west coast and crossed to Hawaii. I recently bought a boat in Detroit, Michigan and brought it to the east coast via Erie canal/Hudson river.

My future plans are gunk holing up and down the east coast and Caribbean for the next year as I get the boat sorted out. After that my plan is open ended cruising.....maybe South America.....maybe crossing and doing the canal system in France.
If, these are your sailing/voyaging plans, then I would actually recommend a full Marine HF-DSC-SSB transceiver (the Icom M-802)....but it's doubtful that you'd actually buy it, install it properly for transmitting, etc....so maybe my above comments/recommends (and the links below) will suit you better???




I am former military.....I have experience with HF field antennas.......mostly sloping long wire.......but the antenna was directional. I am assuming a sailboat antenna needs to be omnidirectional.
As long as you are using an antenna that is outside your boat (preferably 25' - 35' long), strung in the clear as best you can, AND rid your boat of on-board RFI, then you do NOT need to worry about antenna / antenna directionality....

Many just clip a short wire from the radio's external antenna jack, to a convenient shroud/stay....and this works pretty well...
Others string up a wire (any copper wire) 20' - 30' long, up on a halyard / flag halyard, etc. and this also works well...

The KEY thing here is using an external antenna, AND ridding your boat of RFI (Radio Frequency Interference), which can cause many, many reception problems...




I see SSB radios that are mobile transceivers.......they appear to be rated at lower watts.....like 50-75w. Does this relate to transmitting only?
Not sure exactly which ones you're referring to....but regardless, forget them...and read the recommendations here....



I would like to purchase a simple and reliable unit that will work wherever I go.....but that may be unrealistic.
It is not only "realistic" but is done by many sailors/cruisers....
All the way from the $150-$200 Sangean....to the $1800- $2600 Icom M-802/AT-140....
Amazon.com: Sangean ATS-909X AM/FM/LW/SW World Band Receiver: Electronics

Icom SSB Radio Kits & Components



I have also read that the marine versions are more tolerant of power supply fluctuations.....a Ham version would need to be run off a back ups type power supply?
This is typically true, but only for TRANSMITTING....
If you were using these radios for receiving only, this is NOT an issue...

Boomer, if you want to read more details about receiving offshore weather, inexpensive receivers, etc. please read these threads....
There is a LOT of info/detail here....just about all you'd ever need...

Offshore / Hi-Seas Weather data / forecasts
SSCA Forum • View topic - Offshore / Hi-Seas Weather data / forecasts

Weather info...
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ea-103555.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1449198


Details about inexpensive radios....
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1373123


http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1382752

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1395150

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1249707

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...sw-104764.html


Even if some of the above links' titles might not seem to be on-point, they actually are (despite any title confusions)...




I hope this helps...

Fair winds...

John
s/v Annie Laurie

[Boomer8654]

Thank you John, and everyone, for your time and effort. That is most helpful.

I just use the whip antenna on the radio, and move both the radio and the antenna to get the best reception.

I am not sure what the sources of RFI are.

I do have a battery bank x2 and a solar panel. I use the battery bank through a small inverter, to charge my handheld VHF, cell phone, laptop, etc. I do have one small red/white LED light above my chart table. The sailboat has no engine. The only other wiring is a masthead tricolor and anchor light.

[Boomer8654]

As far as the weather faxes goes. I don't know what is involved in receiving them. I assumed you needed a SSB with extra equipment to receive them.

If it isn't that difficult/costly to receive them it would be great!

Thank you

[Cheechako]

I think a marine SSB will be a better receiver, It's just a higher quality device. It will have optional filters etc to help you hear. and sensitive tuning to help you tune just right. Get a set of over the ear headphones also. But warning... they all can be hard to hear on a lot of the time. On the cheap maybe an old SEA Marine radio would be a good thing. I've not had one but I know they are old school and thus go pretty inexpensive.
The watts doesn't matter for receiving.
The Kenwood 430, 440, 450 are excellent bargains but are Ham radios requiring manual tuning if you don't like that.

[Boomer8654]

Does the antenna wire need to be solid copper wire like what is inside Romex, or is multi strand automotive type wire sufficient?

Does the size, AWG of the wire have an effect?

Does the wire have to be free hanging or could it be run along the mast (insulated) and secured semi-permanently?

Does the length effect the ability to tune for different freqs?

Could different lengths be run parallel, in a bundle (insulated) and individual pigtails for each length, be used to connect to my radio, without the other unused antenna lengths interfering with reception?

Thank you for the help.

[ka4wja]

Boomer,
Okay now that we have some more info we can actually try to help...

First off, FORGET what I (and others) have written here about buying/installing a marine SSB or ham transceiver!!!
With the boat systems you describe and your truly "bare bones" lifestyle, this would be problematic to install properly, would be relatively expensive (figure close to $3000 for a full-blown system...all the way down to $400-$500 for a used ham radio), and most importantly it would NOT solve your problems!!!


Here is a video that shows how to choose the correct channel/frequency for a particular time of day....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-1LgNioO6w

And, here is a video that shows some RFI....not too much, but some...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX8Oy8TwAic

Originally Posted by Boomer8654

I just use the whip antenna on the radio, and move both the radio and the antenna to get the best reception.
Using the built-in whip antenna (combined with, I assume, you being somewhat uninformed about radiowave propagation and proper channel/frequency choice, and maybe having some on-board RFI), are most probably the main causes of your troubles....

As I wrote earlier.....
As long as you are using an antenna that is outside your boat (preferably 25' - 35' long), strung in the clear as best you can, AND rid your boat of on-board RFI, then you do NOT need to worry about antenna / antenna directionality....

Many just clip a short wire from the radio's external antenna jack, to a convenient shroud/stay....and this works pretty well...
Others string up a wire (any copper wire) 20' - 30' long, up on a halyard / flag-halyard, etc. and this also works well...

The KEY thing here is using an external antenna, AND ridding your boat of RFI (Radio Frequency Interference), which can cause reception problems...


Does the antenna wire need to be solid copper wire like what is inside Romex, or is multi strand automotive type wire sufficient?
Does the size, AWG of the wire have an effect?
Before you go further, please try using one of your shrouds/stays as your antenna....it may surprise you, how well it works....(or it might not
Just clip a short wire from the radio's external antenna jack, to a convenient shroud/stay...and have a listen on the these freqs/times...

USCG HF Voice

Boomer, I still don't know where you are at (Bill asked you yesterday and I haven't seen any answer yet), so I cannot give you further recommendations on what frequencies/times...

If you find that clipping a wire to a stay/shroud doesn't work well for you, you can build your own antenna for only a couple dollars (or free)...
Just about ANY wire will work....
But, I prefer insulated stranded copper wire....any gauge that will hold up to your marine environment....(or even SS wire, like SS lifeline wire, as it will last a LONG time)...
Many guys just scrounge some scrap copper wire from a dumpster or ask an electrician for a scrap 25' - 30' piece...any color....any gauge....just make sure it is stranded wire (not solid) and is a gauge large enough to be strong enough (depending on length and type/design of hoist, this can be as large as 12awg or as small as 18awg....typically 14awg, as it is easy to source for free or very cheaply!!)
I do NOT recommend solid copper wire, as it will bend and then break in short order...

The length for your application is NOT critical....anything from 15' - 45' will work, but I recommend 25' - 35'....


Does the wire have to be free hanging or could it be run along the mast (insulated) and secured semi-permanently?
I do not recommend string it along the mast (I assume alum mast)....and I DO recommend keeping it in the clear....
But...
Everything is relative....and everything is a bit of a compromise....
Since I have no idea what boat you have, nor how it is rigged, etc. I cannot give you an absolute answer...

If you desire for a secured, permanent solution.....it's actually an easy design...
It's usually called an "alternative backstay antenna"....and you'll usually build it from a piece of SS lifeline wire...
Bill (btrayfors) is the one who invented this particular concept/design, and I'm sure he'll chime in here is you ask...




I am not sure what the sources of RFI are.
Inverters, battery chargers (even small ones for cell phones, laptops, etc.), solar charge controllers, etc. can all output significant RFI....
Not to mention all the other crap on other boats near you (and from shore, if you're near a marina/boatyard)...."near" is within 1/2 mile...

Since you mentioned using your Grundig offshore in the Pacific, I assumed that you didn't have much RFI on-board....but now you mention the inverter, solar array, etc...and I'm starting to wonder if you may have some rather heavy RFI on-board???
And/or are you in a marina/boatyard??? (trying to use an HF radio of any kind, in a marina/boatyard, is difficult...)



I do have a battery bank x2 and a solar panel. I use the battery bank through a small inverter, to charge my handheld VHF, cell phone, laptop, etc. I do have one small red/white LED light above my chart table. The sailboat has no engine. The only other wiring is a masthead tricolor and anchor light.
With this limited electrical system, a portable radio (such as your Grundig, the Sangean, or the Katio) with a decent external antenna is a good choice....

You really need to provide more info for us to be of much more help...
WHERE are you???
Are you in/near a marina/boatyard???
Have you tried the radio with all of your electrical stuff disconnected(not just "turned off")???
Have you tried an external antenna???
What channels/frequencies have you tried, and which ones AT which times of the day???



As far as the weather faxes goes. I don't know what is involved in receiving them. I assumed you needed a SSB with extra equipment to receive them.

If it isn't that difficult/costly to receive them it would be great!
As for wefax reception....it is ALL explained in great detail in the threads I provided links to earlier....
Read them, and you'll have all the answers you need...

In a nutshell, if you have a radio set-up that allows you to effectively receive HF radio signals, with the radio fixed/secured below decks, and connect the radio's earphone output to the soundcard input of your laptop (or some have actually used the microphone of their iPad, sitting next to the radio), then you use free (or cheap) software to receive the weather faxes....
Again, READ the threads I referenced earlier, and you'll have all the details you need....but, you see here that you need a radio set-up that WORKS and works so that you can use your laptop/iPad, etc. (below decks is best)...

Boomer, there's a lot more info.....both info we need to help you, and what info we can provide....but as you can see, until you give more there's not much more to pass on to you....


Fair winds...

John
s/v Annie Laurie

[ka4wja]

Boomer,
Sorry I missed this post....


Specifics here....

Originally Posted by Boomer8654

A question please...... Can a SSB receiver, with an improved external antenna, pick up all of the Marine SSB cruiser net weather freqs and HAM weather freqs as well? Or does having the more expensive units cover a range of freqs not available on the receiver?

It sounds like....the transceiver components are of higher quality and the ability to tune better maker it easier to receive. Is that correct?
Most of the details are in the threads I've already referenced....and some of the basics are here...
Offshore / Hi-Seas Weather data / forecasts

In a nutshell, YES, the transceiver components are better, and yes, they do work better.....but...
But, IF you spend the 30 - 60 minutes to learn about channel/frequency choice...use an external antenna.....and rid your boat of any RFI...then an inexpensive "portable" receiver will do a fine job, as many cruisers use this approach to good success...





As a side note.....but related.......If I am not a social butterfly....why would I spend thousands of dollars and go through what sounds like an expensive purchase, license, installation and set up process.....to be able to call for help....when you can get a 406 EPIRB that does the same thing for a few hundred bucks? The EPIRB is automated, freeing me to accomplish more important things WHILE it is signaling my MAYDAY and giving my position. It also transmits a homing signal. Furthermore, it is waterproof, has its own power source, floats and can be kept with you long after your boat has lost power and sunk.
Boomer, I understand you completely....but, please register your EPIRB and read this thread, where you'll see/understand how your EPIRB works, its limitations, and how to improve your odds of rescue...

EPIRB Activation? What happens/How to improve rescue odds
SSCA Forum • View topic - EPIRB Activation? What happens/How to improve rescue odds

And, just in case you didn't have enough to read...here are two more threads that you might find useful...
SSB Receive Only
SSCA Forum • View topic - SSB Receive Only

SSB Receiver Only? Is it practical?
SSCA Forum • View topic - SSB Receiver Only? Is it practical?

fair winds...

John
s/v Annie Laurie

[Boomer8654]

I am learning a great deal...thank you.

Know I know that a SSB receiver with an external antenna and a better understanding of how everything works will be sufficient.

The only reason I have been investigating this subject is from listening to other cruisers telling me how much information I am missing etc. by NOT having a full marine SSB tranceiver setup.

I have been getting the information I need offshore using my Grundig with the whip. But I am researching ways to improve that. Everyone has been a tremendous help.

When inshore, weather info is easy to get between, vhf, cell, internet etc. I usually stay out of large towns, marinas and yacht clubs etc. I prefer the peace and quiet of more remote areas.

I am currently in the Jersey area headed north for the summer. I certainly have my reading schedule full for a while. Thank you everyone for all of your help!

[hellosailor]

"Can a SSB receiver, with an improved external antenna, pick up all of the "

In layman's terms, put it this way:

Can my flashlight, with new batteries, show me what is at the end of every tunnel?

Well, maybe it can, maybe it can't. That's going to depend on the flashlight (radio) and fresh batteries (the better antenna) will help, but we still don't know how long a tunnel might be. (How weak the signal might be, or on what frequency.)

So first you work on the easy part, the antenna. Matched to the frequencies you are interested in. And if that's not enough, then you look into spending more money on a better receiver and see if you can find one that's cheaper than the transceiver that you don't need.

[BOATDOCTOR]

Boomer, end of debates is right here, right now. I am a marine electronics tech who is flown all over the planet to take care of problems like yours. You're getting $300 an hour advice for free right now... To answer you're original questions without opinion or editorial, but with a recommendation, see if you can locate an old working SEA 225 SSB radio somewhere. They are cheaper without the antenna tuner. For receive only, you won't need it. You can use a piece of bare wire as an antenna if you wish, AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT TRANSMIT. Once you wish to transmit, it gets complicated and expensive - period. You can hang the wire from the spreader when you want to use it via a halyard, or you can rig a wire in a more permanent situation, as long as you isolate it from any other metal by at least 4 inches. If you were close by, I'd sell you a good SEA 235 I have as a spare receiver (no antenna tuner) for $50. The last 225 working with tuner I paid $100 for it, and it's on my rental boat. Talks to Florida from here in Puerto Rico (Vieques). Bought to receive only - tuner had been hit by lightning but only had a blown antenna lead (internally) so I had it working in 10 minutes; becoming a full transceiver was a bonus. Any SSB will receive just fine using a bare wire of sufficient length (how tall is your mast?)... you get the picture. Any of you out there don't belive that, call Icom tech tomorrow. That's how we demo them at boat shows. Good luck!

[funk-an-bord.de]

Originally Posted by Boomer8654

A question please...... Can a SSB receiver, with an improved external antenna, pick up all of the Marine SSB cruiser net weather freqs and HAM weather freqs as well? Or does having the more expensive units cover a range of freqs not available on the receiver?

You will get _All_ relevant frequencies with
- SSB receiver
- HAM transceiver
- _open_ marine transceiver


EPIRP is a one way radio.
The two way radios are:
- HAM, to talk with somebody on that frequency
- use a DISTRESS button to contact the safety infrastructure of the CoastGuard.
Wilhelm

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Boomer8654

A question please...... Can a SSB receiver, with an improved external antenna, pick up all of the Marine SSB cruiser net weather freqs and HAM weather freqs as well? Or does having the more expensive units cover a range of freqs not available on the receiver?

I don't think anyone has give you a short, direct answer to this question yet, so here it is: yes.

Depending on what model it is, your Grundig can almost certainly receive all of the frequencies that all of the more expensive radios can. The cheap Tecsun that I gave you a link to, and the Sangean that was also linked in another posting most definitely can receive all of the frequencies that a $2,000 marine SSB transceiver can receive--assuming you have a good antenna. There aren't any double-secret frequencies that the marine transceivers can receive, that the cheap, portable SSB receivers are unable to tune.

I really think all of your issues are going to be answered by setting up a better antenna. Then get some of the free weatherfax software that is out there, connect your Grundig to your laptop (you're not so "bare bones" that you don't even have a laptop, are you!?!), and you'll be all set for all the weather information you should need.

[ka4wja]

Boomer,
I'm glad we've helped.....

Originally Posted by Boomer8654

The only reason I have been investigating this subject is from listening to other cruisers telling me how much information I am missing etc. by NOT having a full marine SSB tranceiver setup.
While there is no question that a "full marine SSB transceiver" has a better receiver in it....I suspect most of the improvements that others are talking about are based on, a) having a better antenna, b) having an easier / less complicated way of tuning stations in, c) having the ability to communicate/talk with others....

Since you have no interest in "c", and seem to have no troubles tuning in stations, "b" is rather moot, and as long as you build/rig an external antenna (and verify you have disconnected any RFI producing devices when using the radio), then you're taking care of "a"....

So, I think you're good-to-go!!!


I have been getting the information I need offshore using my Grundig with the whip. But I am researching ways to improve that. Everyone has been a tremendous help.
See below for more "help"....(now that I know where you are, where you're heading, etc. I can be of more help..)



When inshore, weather info is easy to get between, vhf, cell, internet etc. I usually stay out of large towns, marinas and yacht clubs etc. I prefer the peace and quiet of more remote areas.
FYI, once you leave US waters there will be NO VHF weather radio available....(aside from an occasional "cruiser's net", you're not going to find any weather info on VHF, once you leave the US...)

And, remember that Wi-Fi and cell connections will be more expensive, less reliable, and fewer / less available, as you move away form the US and populated areas...

So with your bare bones approach, as you get more acquainted with HF radio broadcasts, you're not only going to find them to be more useful, but in some places they'll be your only source of offshore weather....



I am currently in the Jersey area headed north for the summer. I certainly have my reading schedule full for a while.
See below for some direct/specific recommendations....

Boomer, in order to reduce your summer reading list, here are some consolidated things...Read them to get a good start....

In an earlier post I referenced the USCG HF Voice Broadcasts of US NWS/NOAA Offshore Weather, which covers up to 250 miles off the US coast, the entire SW N. Atl / Tropical Atl, Caribbean, and Gulf of Mexico....(as well as the High Seas Forecasts, which are more generalized and cover almost the entire N. Atlantic..)
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/hfvoice.htm

You can find descriptions of these forecast areas, and current forecasts, here on these pages...
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/zone/wrdoffmz.htm

And, specifically for New England, mid-Atlantic, tropical Atlantic, and Caribbean....(after getting to these pages, just click on the specific zone of interest, for the current weather forecast)
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/zone/off/offnt1mz.htm
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/zone/off/offnt2mz.htm
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/zone/off/offnt3amz.htm
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/zone/off/offnt3cmz.htm
It is this weather info/forecasts that are Broadcast by USCG, as the NWS/NOAA OFSHORE waters forecasts at the prescribed times/freqs here ( http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/hfvoice.htm )....

For the Hi-Seas Forecasts (which are rather general and cover large areas), you can find these forecast areas and current forecasts here...
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/zone/hsmz.htm
Again, clicking on the particular region of interest will get you the current forecast...and these are what the USCG Broadcasts as the NWS/NOAA HI-SEAS weather forecasts, at the prescribed times/freqs here ( http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/hfvoice.htm )

U.S. Coast Guard HF voice broadcasts are performed in the upper sideband mode using a synthesized voice known as "Iron Mike". This voice is very distinctive and serves as in aid in identifying and copying these weather broadcasts.

If you watch this video, you'll see and hear this synthesized "Iron Mike", on various frequencies, as well as an entire zone's forecast....this, combined with the specific info below should reliably get you the weather forecasts you need...

Below here are specific / detailed directions on how YOU can get offshore weather forecasts on YOUR radio, in YOUR CURRENT LOCATION (and where YOU are planning on being this summer):::

Being in NJ area, you're about 250 miles from NMN (the USCG Area Master Station, Atlantic), you're probably only going to be able to currently receive them on their 4mhz, 6mhz, or 8mhz channels (the lower freq channels will typically have more noise/static, especially during the summer)....and as you move farther north and east over the summer (Cape Cod is about 400 miles from NMN, and Gulf of Maine is 550-600), you'll need to start favoring the higher frequencies, such as 8.764mhz, and then 13.089mhz...

Specifically, while there in the NJ area....I'd recommend that you start listening to the Offshore Waters Forecasts, at the prescribed times and frequencies as follows:
a) At 1530z (11:30am EDT) on 6.501mhz (6501khz), USB (Upper Side Band)....and/or try 8.764mhz (8764khz)...

{You'll most probably just tune to 6.501mhz and 8.764, on the Grundig, and using the "SSB" switch on the radio, and then fine-tune until the synthesized voice sounds clear....
Typically 8764 will have less noise, but this close range can sometimes suffer deep fading...}


b) At 2130z (5:30pm EDT) on 8.764mhz (8764khz) and/or 6.501mhz (8501khz).....

c) At 0930z (5:30am EDT) on 4.426Mhz (4426khz) and/or 6.501mhz (6501khz)...

d) At 0330z (11:30pm EDT) on 6.501 and/or 4.426....

As you move farther north and east, favor the higher freqs, such as 8764 for daytimes (or even 13.089mhz as you get more than 400 miles away / North of Boston / etc.)....and at night 8764 or 6501....


Boomer, I hope this helps...

Fair winds..

John
s/v Annie Laurie

P.S.
I forgot to give you the link to ALL of the above info....
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/home.htm
This page has links to just about every marine weather source available, worldwide....