Strange ICOM M-802 (Early Version or what?)

[waterman46]

I recently bought an Icom M-802 advertised as "in the box" on E-Bay. I know, my bad, but price was right so. . . The problem is, there are significant differences between this unit and all the information I have found on the web regarding programming and even the hardware of every other M-802. And I don't think the seller has any technical knowledge of the M-802.

Serial number of this unit is 01034. I know they made changes to the newer units starting with 11xxx but from what I can find, the changes are not relevant to what I see in this unit.

Maybe someone here can help, before I run to the dealers and pay big bucks for modifications, even if possible. I have searched many hours on-line including in CF, but found no references to what I am seeing.

On the control unit, there are buttons in all the right places, but some of them are labeled differently and some do not function the same as described in the manual.

DSC button in the manual is labeled CALL on my unit.
SET MODE button is labeled MODE
Email button is labeled SET

Regardless of the labeling issue, I can use the radio in all modulation modes, both channelized and VFO, but the DSC does not seem to work per the manuals. According to manual, I should be able to get to DSC menus by pressing DSC then SET MODE. I have tried all possible combinations of CALL, MODE and SET and other buttons in every order, but I can't get the DSC menu screens. After pressing CALL the SET button brings up the squelch set mode, MODE changes modulation type, and the CH/FREQ button toggles the screen top row label from EMERGENCY to 2182. Of course I did not press the red button to start a Distress call.

Now the worst part is, on the main unit I should have a connector for the DSC receive. There is no such connector on my unit, although there is a blank spot in the housing where it should be located.

I'm located in San Francisco Bay Area - any references to a local source of technical help would be great - closest one I see is in LA area.

[smac999]

have you put an mmsi number in?

you are probably not going to get an DSC menu unless you have an mmsi number programmed in. that is how VHF radios work anyways.

[Paul L]

Are you saying the DSC antenna connector is missing?

[IslandHopper]

Pictures would be a big help in sorting your problem.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Are you saying the DSC antenna connector is missing?

Yes, it is missing. I will try to attach a picture.

[IOM]

Its just a 802 without the DSC boards in. Plenty of them around.
Nothing the dealer can do to make it DSC either, if you need the DSC, then sell it, and look for a DSC version

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by smac999

have you put an mmsi number in?

you are probably not going to get an DSC menu unless you have an mmsi number programmed in. that is how VHF radios work anyways.

Thanks, good to know. When I first turn on the unit it quickly flashes "ICOM M802" on the screen and nothing else, then quickly goes to normal operation screen. Somewhere I saw that if MMSI is not yet programmed, that initial flash screen should also say something like "NO MMSI" or the actual MMSI if already programmed. This unit displays neither message.

Just want to see what others may say about this before I go to ICOM service.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by IOM

Its just a 802 without the DSC boards in. Plenty of them around.
Nothing the dealer can do to make it DSC either, if you need the DSC, then sell it, and look for a DSC version

Thanks, I did not know there were M802 w/o DSC. I should have asked the question of the seller. It's just that the only manuals on line that I can find, always show only the DSC versions.

[IOM]

I don't know about how they start up differently, as I put the DSC number in with software, but I have seen many of them locally available, because the fishing guys had to upgrade to DSC , so there were many of the non DSC ones floating around here.
The Non DSC like you have send a two tone "call" when you push the button to attract attention I think, and possibly get someone to listen for your distress call, unlike DSC which will send some info of value out to whoever may still be listening these days.

[ka4wja]

Waterman,
That is a non-DSC M-802, that Icom produced for the Asian market, at reduced pricing structure, to allow maritime HF comms....after the ceased production of their other Maritime HF radios (M-700Pro and M-710) in early 2000's...

Most of these non-DSC M-802's that are NOS (New Old Stock), are sold by discounters / wholesalers in Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore...

I'm sorry to say that it would be difficult and costly to add the hardware (DSC receiver, and its controller) and the software/firmware (that generates the FSK/SITOR modulation in the DSP unit)....
I was going to say impossible, but somewhere someone will argue that its not "impossible", but to be clear you'd be much better off just buying a MF/HF-DSC-SSB radio....

In that vein, with used M-802's selling here on Cruiser's Forum for $800 (to $1000, with the AT-140), and some used M-802's on ebay for about the same prices....
Have a look see...


Fair winds....gotta' go!

John

[ka4wja]

Waterman,
In addition to my answer of "what did you buy?"
Let me be clear, Icom Service cannot help here....your M-802 is a non-DSC version....and as such there is no way to use a MMSI#....

Here are some more details..

Originally Posted by ka4wja

Waterman,
That is a non-DSC M-802, that Icom produced for the Asian market, at reduced pricing structure, to allow maritime HF comms....after the ceased production of their other Maritime HF radios (M-700Pro and M-710) in early 2000's...

Most of these non-DSC M-802's that are NOS (New Old Stock), are sold by discounters / wholesalers in Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore...

I'm sorry to say that it would be difficult and costly to add the hardware (DSC receiver, and its controller) and the software/firmware (that generates the FSK/SITOR modulation in the DSP unit)....
I was going to say impossible, but somewhere someone will argue that its not "impossible", but to be clear you'd be much better off just buying a MF/HF-DSC-SSB radio....

In that vein, with used M-802's selling here on Cruiser's Forum for $800 (to $1000, with the AT-140), and some used M-802's on ebay for about the same prices....
Have a look see...


Fair winds....gotta' go!

John

Note that your non-DSC M-802 does not have an FCC certification ID # (nor a CE cert, nor for Aus, NZ, Canada, etc...)....that's 'cuz it was never designed/manufactured to be used in any first-world country...rather just for a couple developing Asian nations (such as Indonesia, Thailand, China, etc.)....

I assume you purchased this from an offshore discounter (in Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore?), and you have contacted ebay/Paypal about a refund (and/or return)??
If you haven't tried to get your money back, START THAT PROCESS NOW....(surprisingly, ebay is quite good in refunding the purchaser...even when the seller states "no returns", "as-is", etc...actually ebay is so good at refunding purchaser's money, that it has upset many sellers....)
But, I have no experience with any international ebay sites, but assuming this was the US ebay site, whether the seller was overseas or not, you should be able to get your money back...
Although, it might take a few weeks....so, be sure to start the process now...



As for MF-HF-DSC-SSB Radiotelephones (any modern "marine SSB radio"), the Icom M-803 is the least expensive FCC Certified MF/HF-DSC radio (meets current FCC specs)...and also the least expensive one, that meets IMO/GMDSS Class E specs....
Not to mention the only one that meets the current IMO/GMDSS Class E specs, that runs on 12vdc....
BUT...

But, since Icom marketing team wanted the control head to meet IP67 spec (for watertightness) there is no headphone jack....
AND....

And, it seems the Icom team (marketing and engineering?) decided to make a splash (sorry about the pun) and make the radio's image be the selling point (color display, soft keys, etc.), rather than it's actual ease-of-use, etc....
So, the M-803 is a more "marine" radio destined for those new to HF radio and/or those sailors/mariners untrained in HF comms, rather than a "multi-use", marine / aviation / land-mobile radio (all of which the venerable M-802 was certified for...as well as an excellent and easy-to-use HF ham radio)....

Now the M-803 is a great radio....it works well, and should be a great addition to anyone's boat!
And, if you want one....go and buy one from Gary at Dockside Radio...

Dockside Radio
Pactor-II/III Radio Modem sales, FCC License filing, Marine SSB & HAM Radio Net schedules &amp frequencies.

Icom America
https://www.icomamerica.com/en/produ...3/default.aspx

Gary, sets up the M-803 as good as it can be...ready for ham radio use as well as marine (DSC, SSB, WeFax, etc.)....and Gary even has an option, to use the M-802's external speaker, the SP-24 (which is much better than the built-in speaker of the M-803), and he has added a headphone jack to the external speaker, along with a simple switch to turn the speaker off, in order to use the headphones and not disturb others on-board...


To be clear, I own three Icom M-802's....two on-board (one hooked-up, and one spare) and one on-shore....and I love them....but...
I was planning on buying an M-803 after I returned from NZ, Aus, and Fiji this past March...and, installing it on-board (along with one of my existing M-802's), and doing a few new videos of them both...side-by-sdie comparisons, etc....BUT...
I got back to USA on Feb 29th....and, with Covid19, etc., I decided to wait and save some $$$$ to better care for my Mom....
(and, with what I've seen of the M-803, I think I'd choose the M-802 as my primary radio anyway....so....so, I don't have any real-time, personal experience with the M-803....but a few of our Cruiser's Forum members do, such as Dave, "Auspicious"...have a look at what he writes about it...)



HF-DSC Comms
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ga2zYuPozhUXZX

And, as of Dec 31, 2019, the FCC's 3 year waiver expired....this waiver to sell the M-802 in the USA, after the change in FCC rules...
The expiration of this wavier, would make the M-802 un-certified, due to:
a) the fact that it didn't allow the operator the choice to resend its DSC Distress Call, if no acknowledge was received, rather the M-802 resent it automatically (which was the old IMO/GMDSS rule)
b) there was no digital timer displayed on the radio's screen, that would show how much time has lapsed (zero to four minutes) since the DSC-Distress Call was sent (also a change in the rules)
c) and that the M-802, automatically resent the DSC-Distress Call, every 3 and 1/2 minutes, rather than the prescribed 4 minutes...


But, since most cruiser's are actually better off, with the M-802's "old rules" certification ["automatically" resending the DSC-Distress Call", until an acknowledgment is received, or until you the operator presses "cancel", and then a DSC-Distress Cancellation Call is sent....few (none?) cruisers are going to be standing-by the radio, watching the display countdown timer, until it reaches the proscribed time to then decide whether to resend their DSC-Distress Call or not.....and , while the difference is slight (~ 30 seconds), I'd rather have the call repeat in 3.5 minutes rather than 4 minutes...], other than most sellers are no longer selling the M-802 in the USA, there is no reason to give up on the M-802, until the supply is gone...


Icom America
M802 Single Side Band (SSB) - Features - Icom America

As for new M-802's (New Old Stock), there are still a few people selling them in the USA....(please buy one from them, or leave 'em alone....'cuz, they're doing a good deed, even if as of the end of last year, it is technically against FCC rules....and, if you don't like what they're doing, just leave 'em alone...)
Last month, I saw three guys in the US selling new M-802's....in addition to a few nationwide retailers that still had it listed on their websites...but, tonight, I only see one guy selling them new, and still a few nationwide retailers that still had it listed on their website...

In just a few seconds, I found a marine parts dealer in New York that has six new M-802's listed on ebay....(and while they don't specifically describe the M-802's DSC features, the photos show the "DSC-Distress Button", the "email" button, etc...so, if they are non-DSC M-802's ebay will quickly refund the purchaser...)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Icom-Boat-M...QAAOSwZVpccD19


And, there are used M-802's showing up (cruiser's forum, ebay, etc.) for about $1000....
Although, I saw one that looked like it was subjected to a lot of salt water (lots of rust, etc.), so buyer-beware...
{and, please only buy from ebay sellers with 100% positive feedback rating....or if 99.x%, have a look at the negative/neutral comments to see what the real story is....anyone that can't get a 100% positive rating, or damn close to it, is someone to avoid!!!....and I personally like to buy only from someone who will post their name or ham callsign, 'cuz if not, there is a reason...fyi, I've been on ebay for > 21 years now, so I also look at their history / tenure on ebay, to judge if they're legit...}
This past summer and fall (in norther hemisphere) there were a few excellent quality used M-802's here on Cruisers Forum...



I hope this helps clarify things a bit more?

Fair winds.

John

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4PO...ga2zYuPozhUXZX

[waterman46]

John, thanks for all the details, much information there as usual. I was aware of the type acceptance issues for the M802 but just didn't do my "due diligence" in asking the right questions of the seller. It was advertised as "open box" and I assumed that meant it was a recent model used for a display. It actually was shipped in the original box, with all cables and small accessory packs unopened, so the seller did not lie about anything, simply didn't include info that I should have asked for.

I'll try the E-bay return process though I will lose a lot due to shipping costs if it works at all.

I will buy a new -11 model when I find the right deal. Do you know if there would be any differences in any -11 units whether sourced offshore or in the US? I assume individuals and maybe dealers in the US just buy them offshore, then mark them up double since they will ship from a US address.