Upgrading Old Electronics (Circa 1995)

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by clausont

Our boat has old - some non-functioning electronics on it that I would like to slowly start upgrading. I don't have a big budget for all brand new electronics so am looking at replacing the components piece by piece. The original equipment id pretty much all Autohelm (now Raymarine). The radar is Autohelm ST50 Plus. It has Autohelm St4000 tiller pilot. The Chartplotter is a Garmin GPSMap 230 (I wonder if it is even functional with the systems in place now). None of this equipment has ever been used. Owner installed all of it when he built the boat - splashed in '94 - and he never sailed the boat except 5 miles upriver every few years for haulout and bottom job.
I would like to start with replacing the chartplotter and would like to stay with Raymarine or something compatible with NMEA0183. But even this statement may be showing my ignorance of modern marine electronic systems.
Any suggestions on upgrading will be greatly appreciated.
NOTE: Depth finder works fine in shallow water to 25' - I haven't tested it in deep water yet. No other instruments power up yet. Likely they are just disconnected. It has wind speed, direction, and depth as well.

The st4000 is adequate even today ( I have one upgraded to power a below deck linear arm ) , if the wind and depth are Raymarine, then if they work , they are likely seatalk compatible

The radar and chart plotter are dinosaurs and best dumped , the gpsmap charts can’t be upgraded

For now remove the radar and concentrate on getting the wind and depth working , hopefully these are Raymarine

Concentrate your pennies on acquiring recent generation Raymarine chart plotter. Perhaps a gS or eS series , which come up occasionally secondhand. , you’ll need a sea talk to seatalkng converter to network your instruments and AP to your chartplotter.
Radar can be added later as funds allow.

Where possible don’t mix and match brands unless there is a damm good reason for doing so.

In my case I have 16 year old ST 60 depth, log ( tridata ) wind st60 and auto pilot ST 4000, connected by seatalk which is then bridged onto seatalkng ( nmea2000) that bus then contains the later generation kit , AIS , chartploter and N2K vhf radio. Everything networks nicely with everything. I’m saving up for a Quantum 2 Doppler radar to complete the instrumentation.

[Dogscout]

My take on boating electronics is pretty simple. If you are going to rely on it for your safety, then spend some money and do it right. I understand your budget conscious and after reading through this thread I 100% agree with what goboatingnow said in the previous post.

Safety and knowing that you can rely on them is paramount. Without that why do you even have electronic systems?

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by clausont

I am thinking the GPS - Chartplotter will need to be replaced since it is older technology that may not even be compatible with modern GPS. I will be happy if I am wrong and it will actually work!

There is no compatibility problem with modern GPS transmissions. Newer receivers will start up faster and track more satellites but as far as accuracy is concerned there has been little improvement since WAAS. That is starting to change with dual band systems that have shown up recently but the improvements are minor. Even a very early GPS receiver will locate you well. Newer receivers are often capable of navigating with GLONASS, BeiDou, and Galileo instead of, or in addition to, GPS but there really isn't much practical advantage to the feature at this time. The reason to change chartplotter is if you can't get current charts for the one you have or you are looking for a better display or newer features (such as N2K interfacing).

I'm all for the less expensive used equipment. Thanks for the suggestions on the Furuno units - I will look for one and see what I come up with.

There are several MFD8 (8") and MFD12 (12") chartplotters on eBay right now. It is probably a good idea to check out Craigslist as well. I have had an MFD8 since 2009 and have been very happy with it. Newer chartplotters have solid state radars and CHIRP sonars but don't fundamentally add functionality - they would be cool to have but not worth it to me to splash out the bucks for it.

We are in Warrenton, OR (Astoria area). I feel that radar will be pretty much a necessity as will a good chart plotter. We will be sailing both in the river and across the bar. Spending some time up in Puget Sound again will be a goal as well.

Yes, you definitely want a functioning radar there. And current charts. Also you should think about adding an AIS transceiver (which requires a compatible chartplotter, which your old chartplotter is not, or an AIS with its own display).

I have to disagree with those that say to stick with one brand. I have mixed and matched systems for Carina and other vessels without issue. My system has a Furuno chartplotter and radar, Simrad AIS, Raymarine autopilot, Maretron compass, Airmariine depth and speed transducers, and Maretron DeviceNet cabling. It all plays well together. The only downside is that the autopilot needs to be operated from its own display and not the chartplotter, which I think is just fine. The only caveat is to check that the PGNs (N2K) or sentences (0183) are compatible - not usually a problem but not always.

Greg

[clausont]

Originally Posted by thomm225

So here is the computer hobbyist (tech actually) version of a DIY chartplotter using a Raspberry Pi 4, HDTV for a monitor, and free OpenCPN Charts. (with AIS and GPS coming in from a SH 2400 VHF/GPS/AIS Radio)

Plus backup GPS Dongle on Priority 1. GPS from VHF on Priority 0 if I remember correctly

Since this was my first shot at it I spent too much at around $200.00. (but you can also watch TV on the HDTV Monitor with all those strange channels the best being PBS) Plus you can also watch movies or videos on the chartplotter monitor.

When I put my old laptop onboard this year, it will cost nothing for the chartplotter. I did buy a $12.00 USB GPS wireless Dongle for it though and have already tested it here at my apt.

https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-G-Mou...398641&sr=8-10

I do have OpenCPN on a laptop which I will be using, but in the end, I want something dedicated and maybe a bit more weather resistant than my laptop for reliability. It seems I even messed with OpenCPN in it's early days and was trying to make it work on my Linux machine. I don't recall if I got it to work or not. I do love OpenCPN.

[clausont]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The st4000 is adequate even today ( I have one upgraded to power a below deck linear arm ) , if the wind and depth are Raymarine, then if they work , they are likely seatalk compatible

Great to know! I was wondering about that. With the cost of a new tiller pilot, it would be far down on my list of replacement items. The wind and depth (Tridata) are Autohelm which I believe is all Sea Talk operable. The installation manual that came with the boat shows connecting teh Sea Talk cables to the display heads.

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The radar and chart plotter are dinosaurs and best dumped , the gpsmap charts can’t be upgraded

I figured the char plotter was a completely obsolete dinosaur and would have to be replaced. I was hoping the radar might be sort of low level functioning until I could upgrade it. Maybe have to work on that one sooner. I do believe radar is a necessity here at the mouth of the Columbia river.

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

For now remove the radar and concentrate on getting the wind and depth working , hopefully these are Raymarine

Already removed the radar mast as the base was leaking and caused some deck rot which is the first order of repair. I won't re-install it for some time and possibly will only install upgraded radar. I know radar has come a long way since then. My project for today is working on the existing wind and speed instruments and see what powers up and what is a complete fail. My crew (my kids) will be helping with these projects

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Concentrate your pennies on acquiring recent generation Raymarine chart plotter. Perhaps a gS or eS series , which come up occasionally secondhand. , you’ll need a sea talk to seatalkng converter to network your instruments and AP to your chartplotter.
Radar can be added later as funds allow.

Thanks - I appreciate the direction here. That is basically my plan. I wasn't sure which I would need to work on first, but was planning on a good chart plotter as a base.

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Where possible don’t mix and match brands unless there is a damm good reason for doing so.

Agreed!

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

In my case I have 16 year old ST 60 depth, log ( tridata ) wind st60 and auto pilot ST 4000, connected by seatalk which is then bridged onto seatalkng ( nmea2000) that bus then contains the later generation kit , AIS , chartploter and N2K vhf radio. Everything networks nicely with everything. I’m saving up for a Quantum 2 Doppler radar to complete the instrumentation.

I do hope to add AIS at some point and am definitely upgrading the 30 year old VHF. (Yes, the vhf works, but this most basic piece of equipment is painfully obsolete). The HF Marine sideband will stay.
Thanks!

[George_SD]

Originally Posted by clausont

I saw the axiom 7 advertised yesterday. The only thing that I didn't like about it was no depth, but really, my depth find seems to be working fine so it's not an absolute necessity.
The Airmar transducer sounds like a good deal. I'll look into that. Thanks!

Get the Axiom 7 DV with built-in sonar module ( that's what I have). It came with a CHIRP transducer, that I've mounted inside the hull without making any holes and it reads the depth just fine.
Alternatively, as mentioned before - an airmar smart depth/temp/speed transducer can output all of that data into a N2K network and Axiom can read it from the network.

[clausont]

Originally Posted by Dogscout

My take on boating electronics is pretty simple. If you are going to rely on it for your safety, then spend some money and do it right. I understand your budget conscious and after reading through this thread I 100% agree with what goboatingnow said in the previous post.

Safety and knowing that you can rely on them is paramount. Without that why do you even have electronic systems?

Thanks. I agree also.

[clausont]

Originally Posted by George_SD

Get the Axiom 7 DV with built-in sonar module ( that's what I have). It came with a CHIRP transducer, that I've mounted inside the hull without making any holes and it reads the depth just fine.
Alternatively, as mentioned before - an airmar smart depth/temp/speed transducer can output all of that data into a N2K network and Axiom can read it from the network.

Thanks. I'll check on this one.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

….



I have to disagree with those that say to stick with one brand. I have mixed and matched systems for Carina and other vessels without issue. My system has a Furuno chartplotter and radar, Simrad AIS, Raymarine autopilot, Maretron compass, Airmariine depth and speed transducers, and Maretron DeviceNet cabling. It all plays well together. The only downside is that the autopilot needs to be operated from its own display and not the chartplotter, which I think is just fine. The only caveat is to check that the PGNs (N2K) or sentences (0183) are compatible - not usually a problem but not always.



Greg

The issue is this. Manufacturers tend to make their own equipment work well together including the ability to have virtual control heads and calibrate and setup their sensors.

Given there is little real difference between the big four suppliers , other then product feature priority , it’s makes no sense to simply mix and match “ purely for the sake of it “. If you find an important materially relevant reason to leave the “ walled garden “ that’s fine.

If you system is predominantly Seatalk then it makes good sense to stay within the Raymarine fold etc upgrading to SeatalkNg as appropriate. ( the issue of nmea 2000 connectors is rather hot air. )

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by clausont

I do have OpenCPN on a laptop which I will be using, but in the end, I want something dedicated and maybe a bit more weather resistant than my laptop for reliability. It seems I even messed with OpenCPN in it's early days and was trying to make it work on my Linux machine. I don't recall if I got it to work or not. I do love OpenCPN.

Yeah lots of folks want the more weather resistant units, but this is the first electronic chartplotter I have ever had so it's a luxury just having it. (after boating without one since the early 70's)

Before I either used charts or visual aids even when in areas new to me. (even the stars a couple times at night when the boat spun around while I was talking to a friend and pulling up the anchor. We were mid bay and could see lights all around almost with none I recognized. This in 1979 when I was visiting home from Arizona)

My units also stay below so they are out of the weather (which ever computer I am using at the time)

I have two RPI 4's and this year will put my 17" Toshiba Satellite Laptop onboard since I recently built up an old tower with all new motherboard, SSD, 11th Gen I-5 Chip, 650 Corsair Power Supply, 24" Monitor etc, etc, for home use.

Next purchase will be an AIS Transponder. I have receive now but want the transponder.

[clausont]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Yeah lots of folks want the more weather resistant units, but this is the first electronic chartplotter I have ever had so it's a luxury just having it. (after boating without one since the early 70's)

Before I either used charts or visual aids even when in areas new to me. (even the stars a couple times at night when the boat spun around while I was talking to a friend and pulling up the anchor. We were mid bay and could see lights all around almost with none I recognized. This in 1979 when I was visiting home from Arizona)

My units also stay below so they are out of the weather (which ever computer I am using at the time)

I have two RPI 4's and this year will put my 17" Toshiba Satellite Laptop onboard since I recently built up an old tower with all new motherboard, SSD, 11th Gen I-5 Chip, 650 Corsair Power Supply, 24" Monitor etc, etc, for home use.

Next purchase will be an AIS Transponder. I have receive now but want the transponder.

I hope to install at least an AIS receiver at some point, but a few things first.

[clausont]

Ok, just a quick update: After connecting power to them, I have tested the existing equipment to see which will power up. So far, everything seems to power up. The ancient radar appears to work (I only powered it up to see if it will power up). Chartplotter powers up, but I doubt it can acquire any satellites as old as this style of chartplotter is.
Tridata powers up. No reading from wind which I know is broken at the mast head. Depth works as stated. No idea on speed. But at least it now will power up.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by clausont

I hope to install at least an AIS receiver at some point, but a few things first.

I'm getting AIS data from my SH VHF/GPS/AIS Radio. I believe mine is a GX2200.

Cost around $330 back a couple years ago....

[thomm225]

BTW I'm still using the PO's old Depth finder a Humminbird 200DX which is probably late 90's or before

I did replace the display though with one I got off Ebay for $35

https://www.ebay.com/itm/40365327081...wAAOSwzDBifCjd

This from 5 years ago before I redid my interior....

see old Humminbird working just fine as it was an hour ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWwQ4iUfiyM

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by clausont

Chartplotter powers up, but I doubt it can acquire any satellites as old as this style of chartplotter is.

As I posted above, being old is not a problem. If it is still working it will acquire the satellites and calculate your position. The basic public GPS has not changed, or at least not enough that would be a problem. My brother is a developer for the GPSd project and maintains the code for some of the very old receivers - which are being supported.

No idea on speed. But at least it now will power up.

Most knotmeter transducers can be removed and replaced with a plug, so first look for a plug. Many even have check valves that stop most of the water flow inwards when the transducer is pulled out. So pull out the sender, clean the paddlewheel and check that it spins freely. Finally have someone watch the gauge as it is spun. Do this first before checking wiring, etc, as stuck paddlewheels are very common. It is not unusual to find broken paddlewheels but usually these can be replaced.

Greg