Using SSB While On Hard

[cburger]

S/V Moondance is equiped with older marine ssb. The radio is a Sea 222 with an antenna tuner and KISS installed as the boats counterpoise. Boat is currently on the hard and while working on vessel I enjoy listening to coms on 20 meters and attempting to raise other hams on this band. To date have reached Thunder Bay Ontario and Mississippi from New York.

Lately I am able to get unit to indicate its tuning the antenna however taking much longer to accomplish this than in the past and not getting any indication back that my transmissions are being heard.

Would a poor counterpoise like the KISS cause these issues. Is the fact that boat is out of water contribute and could I improve on setup by disconnecting the current KISS counterpoise and rig something that would work better while on land?

[svMarite]

How are you grounded? Do you have a plate or long strap connected to engine?
Wouldn't you need to ground your antenna?

[MicHughV]

You can probably " listen" while on the hard, but need a counter poise to send.

With the boat on the hard, I don't see how you manage to deal with the counterpoise. You might be grounded to the engine, etc, but this in turn is usually (when you are back in the water) grounded to the water....

The SEA 222 tuner is a good one. But again, being 40 years old, you might want to check all your electrical connections, etc.

Good luck.

If you are going to be on the hard for a while, you could try driving a steel pipe into the ground and connecting this to your boat's ground with a suitable grounding wire.

My first boat was equipped with a SEA 222, it's a pretty dated piece of equipment, my guess it must be around 40 years old. It really is a SSB unit, not so much a ham unit. If my memory is correct, it only operates on the upper sideband.

You might want to check that you are receiving and sending on the same frequency. Most all the channels in the SEA 222 are preprogramed, and invariably they use different frequencies for sending and receiving.

You could look this up online if you don't have an onboard manual for your radio.

[Bycrick]

You don’t NEED a "ground" for an antenna to work. If you did, they’d supply a ground rod to carry with your handheld. A dipole antenna has both ends supported off the ground. There are common vertical antennas which are fed in the middle which work just fine without a ground.

If your antenna is the most-common end-fed long wire (ie, backstay), then for good results you need to provide the "other half" of the antenna. That can be either a connection to an earth ground (sea water), a sufficiently large counterpoise, or some combination. The KISS tries to be some kind of combination of counterpoise and capacitive connection to seawater. I doubt that it would work well out of the water. It’s too short to be an effective element of the antenna and putting it above the the ground reduces its effective capacitance.

[jcapo]

If the Kiss worked in the water it will work on the hard.


Propagation is pretty bad these days but I did hear a few boats on Cruiseheimers today for the first time in weeks. I'm in Georgia.

[cburger]

Was thinking about setting up different counterpoise by running wire to bronze rod driven into earth to see it it would improve transmit performance. Addionally there is a chain link fence nearby that could tie into?

Ultimately the plan is to remove the KISS and run copper strap directly below the antenna tuner to bronze thruhull.

My SEA 222 allows programing ham frequencies in addition to the preprogramed marine channels.

[MicHughV]

My HF life started with a SEA 222, but it had limited uses I found. Back in the day, I used it more to connect to then...WOM in Ft. Lauderdale, but I eventually got my Ham license and added a Kenwood, but it used the same SEA tuner.
Seems like most any HF hobbyist has a plan/way/suggestion//recommendation, etc...but I think you are on the right track by driving a bronze pipe into the ground and connecting it to the boat's grounding system..

[Brian.D]

Since you are on the hard, why go through so much work to get your system on the air. Just install a temporary vertical dipole from one of your halyards to the toe rail. Can't go wrong with a 20M dipole. Simple, works, no need for copper ground rods unless you want to ground the boat's DC.

https://briandphoto.net/WA6CCA.htm

[Topanga]

There is some great info about grounding in this article. http://www.icomcanada.com/techbullet..._grounding.pdf

[Moontide]

If you're on the hard guessing there might be several masts near by. In my experience that will kill output.



I use a KISS and have talked from Cal to Finland.

[Cadence]

My WAG is a grounding issue. You might want to get a grounding rod to run down into the ground. They are about 8' long and can be run down into the ground with two fingers and a cup of water. Pour a little water at the point and move up and down a couple of inches repeatedly holding it between two fingers, add a little water as needed at the point of entering the ground. Sounds weird but it works. Beating with a hammer doesn't work.

[Poeme]

I see your "ultimate plan" is to replace the KISS with copper strapping to a bronze thruhull. Just want to say, I think that's a great idea. This past spring I did exactly that and my signal improved 1000%. An old article by Gordon West recommended this, running quality 3" strap to a single unbonded thruhull. (I notice the ICOM manual says to use a bonded thruhull...that makes no sense to me as RF needs surface area). My copper run is probably too long at 12' (closest thruhull) with a 90 degree turn along the way and yet it performs very well. From here in Seattle good signal reports from Japan, NW Territories, Spain etc. I'm aware many have had good luck with KISS-SSB, but my old one is now buried somewhere in the dockbox. Sorry, I realize this is off your subject there on the hard...but couldn't help putting in my 2 cents for down the road.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by cburger

S/V Moondance is equiped with older marine ssb. The radio is a Sea 222 with an antenna tuner and KISS installed as the boats counterpoise. Boat is currently on the hard and while working on vessel I enjoy listening to coms on 20 meters and attempting to raise other hams on this band. To date have reached Thunder Bay Ontario and Mississippi from New York.

Lately I am able to get unit to indicate its tuning the antenna however taking much longer to accomplish this than in the past and not getting any indication back that my transmissions are being heard.

Would a poor counterpoise like the KISS cause these issues. Is the fact that boat is out of water contribute and could I improve on setup by disconnecting the current KISS counterpoise and rig something that would work better while on land?

Glad to read that someone else out there is using an SEA Com Corp SSB. My boat came with an SEA 2250 system that the previous owner did not have installed correctly. After talking with the SEA technician in Mountlake Terrace, WA I took every part of the system (control head, transceiver, antenna tuner, and microphone) to him for service (SEA is only 1.5 hours away). Doug Hutchins got it working perfectly (plus a new microphone) and it gave me excellent service on my roundtrip to Hawaii; I used a KISS. I strongly recommend SEA service.

By the way a service manual for the SEA 222 came with my boat (must have been installed at one time) and I sold it to a guy in Alaska a couple years ago as I had no use for it.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[SoonerSailor]

Originally Posted by jcapo

If the Kiss worked in the water it will work on the hard.

True only in a very limited way. The KISS is nothing more than a fat 14 foot wire that is capacitively coupling RF to sea water - regardless of what the vendor wants you to believe. It does work to a variable extent when sitting in the bilge of your boat with the boat in salt water.

Also, a "ground rod" is ineffective except for grounding static and induced currents from nearby lightning strikes. It is not an effective counterpoise. What does work is wire hanging down from your boat and run along the ground. Even the KISS will work to some extent this way, but you are better off with a longer piece of wire, ideally somewhere near 1/4 of the wavelength of the frequency you are most interested in using.

You could also attach the ground terminal of your antenna tuner to your stainless steel lifelines. They can function fairly well as a counterpoise.

Chip

[S/V Illusion]

As has been suggested, any effective counterpoise will be difficult in a boat yard. And simply grounding it would be useless.

Instead, any dipole, vertical, horizontal or diagonally, will work better and obviate the need for ineffective alternatives.