VHF with AIS, any recommendations??

[s/v Jedi]

I would be very reluctant to buy a VHF that lacks a NMEA2000 port, now that there are cost effective options to get both like the Simrad and B&G radios. I really like SH (because it's Yeasu... I assume it still is and that is great gear) but they really need that N2K interface or they will loose their market share.

If you buy a NMEA0183-only radio now, you will curse that decision when your next piece of gear has N2K as well.

[Capt.Don]

Originally Posted by continuouswave

I don't understand what parameter of the NMEA-0183 interface on the GX-2000 is implemented in a "lazy" manner. Can you elaborate?

Standard-Horizon radios generally have very good NMEA-0183 interfaces. They tend to always have balanced signals. I have not had any problems in interfacing to other devices with their NMEA-0183.

Re NMEA-2000: no existing Standard-Horizon radios have NMEA-2000. There are new models awaiting approval, the GX6000 and GX6500, and they will have a NMEA-2000. interface.

Without going into a lot detail, the radio outputs a subset of the NMEA 0183 GPS sentences and there's a tricky integration with which pair of wires are used and whether the NMEA output is set at 4800 or 38400 baud. Section 21.5 of the manual describes the NMEA 0183 output at 4800 and 38400 baud. Individual sentences can be enabled through the settings.

Having said that, I have the SH GX2200 GPS data output at 4800 baud feeding the Icom M802 radio and the AIS data output at 38400 feeding a wireless multiplexer. The multiplexer combines all the boat's GPS, wind, speed, depth data with AIS from the radio. This gives a nice wireless display on laptop (OpenCPN, Coastal Explorer) or the iPad (iNavX, SeaIQ).

It is a great radio. Also, as others have said, the RAM mic is needed in the cockpit with AIS display.

Don

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Making a short sail down the West Coast from SF to Oceanside. Want to have AIS receive capability. Looks like the best way to accomplish this is with a VHF radio that will display AIS information. Have been looking at all the suspects but can't find much real world experience with these radios. Anyone have experience, druthers on the below culprits

Standard Horizon GX 2200-B
Simrad RS35
B&G V90
Ray 70
Garmin

Lealning toward the SH GX 2200 because of price and onboard GPS. Makes DSC a plug and play without having to go through an outboard GPS. Don't think they are NEMA2000, however.

Have had good experience with ICOM and they are giving a $100 rebate which gets them in the realm or reality.

Simrad and B&G appear to be twins with what looks like intuitive controls.

Ray 70 is the only other radio with built in GPS that I'm aware of but have no experience with their interface.

Garmin a bit pricey

Any comments welcome.

I installed a GX-2200 last year and even on AIS-scarce Lake Ontario, it's been an excellent choice. I will be getting a Class B transceiver (probably the Vesper XB-8000) so the NMEA 0183 aspect doesn't bother me...I use it as a standalone.

A point of interest is that I just purchased a Standard Horizon VHF handheld, the HX 870. This unit has a USB data cable and internal GPS; I believe I can plug it directly into a computer running OpenCPN and receive AIS targets, which addresses your NMEA observation. My blog post is here: The world encompassed: Handy dandy

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by PuttingDoctor

I have the Standard Horizon with the remote mic / display at the helm. Works great.

Since then I added the Vesper AIS so I now also transmit AIS.

I prefer having both. See and be seen.

My logic as well. If you don't wish to be seen as an AIS target (stealth mode in the Red Sea, perhaps), the VHF can still receive AIS targets for safety.

I also popped for the RAM mic and the loudhailer for my GX 2200 and am happy with both. I don't find getting to the "fog" setting onerous, but I'm used to the SH interface. By the way, the loudhailer is also miked. I can hear the foredeck handling the ground tackle from inside the pilothouse. In fact, I can hear people talking at their docks four boat lengths' away. Undocumented feature, I believe.

[barnakiel]

We have onboard a Standard Horizon unit model GX2199 which is a VHF and AIS combo.

I love the unit and I would buy again. Tested from here (the Canaries) to the West Indies and back. About 4 years now on the boat.

The feature I like best is its direct dsc calling of ais targets: highlight the ship on the ais list or on the ais radar screen and press 'CALL DA BASTARD'. That simple and most useful.

There is now an active (transponder, class B) Standard Horizon unit available - I think GX6500. I am buying this one this summer to step up our ais capability.

Cheers,
b.

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by bobmcd625

...I strongly recommend installing even a very simple N2K network to connect the VHF to a chart plotter. Seeing the AIS triangles on a larger screen is a big asset.

A chart plotter will show AIS targets from NMEA-0183 input, too. You do not have to use NMEA-2000 to accomplish this.

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by Capt.Don

Without going into a lot detail, the radio outputs a subset of the NMEA 0183 GPS sentences...

First, I assume you are still talking about a GX-2000 radio. That radio has no internal GNSS receiver. I don't understand how you expect the radio to produce "GPS sentences" if the radio has no GPS receiver. Again, I need some elaboration how this makes the radio's NMEA-0183 implementation "lazy."

Originally Posted by Capt.Don

...and there's a tricky integration with which pair of wires are used and whether the NMEA output is set at 4800 or 38400 baud. Section 21.5 of the manual describes the NMEA 0183 output at 4800 and 38400 baud. Individual sentences can be enabled through the settings.

Until just the past year or so, EVERY radio on the market used their own wire insulation color codes, instead of the NMEA specified color codes. (I am not even sure if there WERE ANY STANDARD color codes from NMEA until recently.)

Standard-Horizon used non-standard wire insulation color codes, but, unlike many competitors, at least Standard-Horizon used THE SAME wire color codes among their products and used them in a consistent manner.

There is no standard connector specified for NMEA-0183 so every manufacturer provides the signals on a loose pigtail of wires. There is nothing unique about Standard-Horizon doing this that constitutes being "lazy."

That Standard-Horzion provides a means for the user to configure the speed of the NMEA-0183 ports is something admirable; again, I don't see how that is supposed to be "lazy."

Also, Standard-Horizon was very innovative in regard to NMEA-0183 in providing a built in multiplexer so that DSC and AIS data could be sent on one output. They were the first to offer this and many competitors still don't have this feature. Again, calling them "lazy" seems at odds with reality.

I happen to like Standard-Horizon radios--as radios--and I find their NMEA-0183 interface is very easy to work with.

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I really like SH (because it's [Yaesu]...assume it still is and that is great gear)...

Yes, Standard-Horizon is still part of the Yaesu family. For some time there was a "partnership" with Yaesu/Standard-Horizon/Vertex and Motorola, but in c.2011 Motorola took over the Vertex Land Mobile radio operation, and Yaesu retained the marine and amateur radio operation.

[bobmcd625]

Originally Posted by continuouswave

A chart plotter will show AIS targets from NMEA-0183 input, too. You do not have to use NMEA-2000 to accomplish this.

No, I understand that 0183 will work but if one is starting from scratch it would seem most logical to put in a N2K network.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by continuouswave

Until just the past year or so, EVERY radio on the market used their own wire insulation color codes, instead of the NMEA specified color codes. (I am not even sure if there WERE ANY STANDARD color codes from NMEA until recently.)

Standard-Horizon used non-standard wire insulation color codes, but, unlike many competitors, at least Standard-Horizon used THE SAME wire color codes among their products and used them in a consistent manner.

There is no standard connector specified for NMEA-0183 so every manufacturer provides the signals on a loose pigtail of wires. There is nothing unique about Standard-Horizon doing this that constitutes being "lazy."

That Standard-Horzion provides a means for the user to configure the speed of the NMEA-0183 ports is something admirable; again, I don't see how that is supposed to be "lazy."

Also, Standard-Horizon was very innovative in regard to NMEA-0183 in providing a built in multiplexer so that DSC and AIS data could be sent on one output. They were the first to offer this and many competitors still don't have this feature. Again, calling them "lazy" seems at odds with reality.

I happen to like Standard-Horizon radios--as radios--and I find their NMEA-0183 interface is very easy to work with.

You are mostly right with your rant but you must have missed this: 16 years ago they came up with the new standard... it's called NMEA2000. Every single radio that adheres to todays standard has both DSC and AIS on the same NMEA output. This is so boring today, they all have it and it all works. How can you say that many competitors still don't have that? They all moved on to the new standard where they all support this.

I do understand that you have NMEA0183 and like your radio; it's only natural that we like and defend what we have. I basically hate all the electronics because they are not doing what is potentially possible, and I have hated my VHF radios ever since moving on from the big green dial-operated Sailor monster. Apart from my SH handhelds, which are great, it is only now with the newest radios that I can start appreciating them again. My B&G still has plenty issues like it's switches and controls are not up to my preferred standard, but at least it uses one single interface to do everything, has a great wireless remote with inductive recharging, a nice display and is small enough

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You are mostly right with your rant...

I am not on a rant. I am just asking you to explain what "lazy" means in regard to how Standard-Horizon implements NMEA-0183. I guess you are not accustomed to offering explanations. My apologies for putting you to that effort. I understand if you want to give up and change the topic to me being on a rant.

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

...you must have missed this: 16 years ago they came up with the new standard... it's called NMEA2000. Every single radio that adheres to today[']s standard has both DSC and AIS on the same NMEA output. This is so boring today, they all have it and it all works. How can you say that many competitors still don't have that? They all moved on to the new standard where they all support this.

The NAVICO low-end radios have awful NMEA-0183 and don't provide DSC and AIS on the same output.

Although NMEA-2000 might be 16 or 17 years old, it has begun to appear on VHF Marine Band radios only in the last year or two.

But you are changing the topic again. I only asked you to explain how the NMEA-0183 was "lazy." You now want to suggest that any radio that still has only NMEA-0183 must be "lazy"--not just the Standard-Horizon radios. That condemns all brands, not just Standard-Horizon.

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

...I do understand that you have NMEA0183 and like your radio; it's only natural that we like and defend what we have.

I bought my radio many years ago, and at that time there were no radios on the market with NMEA-2000. That I own a radio with NMEA-0183 does not mean that I am "defending" it or that I don't have any interest in NMEA-2000. My only interest here was to seek an explanation of what exactly there was about the NMEA-0183 in a GX-2000 that made it "lazy."

Since you did not respond to any of the several comments I made in regard to your observations of particularly "lazy" effort on the part of Standard-Horizon to implement NMEA-0183, I will give up that line of inquiry.

[s/v Jedi]

I am afraid you are confused. I never mentioned anything about any lazy efforts, that must have been someone else

[Mike OReilly]

It was toddster8, post #7: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2340118

[Capt.Don]

Originally Posted by continuouswave

First, I assume you are still talking about a GX-2000 radio. That radio has no internal GNSS receiver. I don't understand how you expect the radio to produce "GPS sentences" if the radio has no GPS receiver. Again, I need some elaboration how this makes the radio's NMEA-0183 implementation "lazy."



Until just the past year or so, EVERY radio on the market used their own wire insulation color codes, instead of the NMEA specified color codes. (I am not even sure if there WERE ANY STANDARD color codes from NMEA until recently.)

Standard-Horizon used non-standard wire insulation color codes, but, unlike many competitors, at least Standard-Horizon used THE SAME wire color codes among their products and used them in a consistent manner.

There is no standard connector specified for NMEA-0183 so every manufacturer provides the signals on a loose pigtail of wires. There is nothing unique about Standard-Horizon doing this that constitutes being "lazy."

That Standard-Horzion provides a means for the user to configure the speed of the NMEA-0183 ports is something admirable; again, I don't see how that is supposed to be "lazy."

Also, Standard-Horizon was very innovative in regard to NMEA-0183 in providing a built in multiplexer so that DSC and AIS data could be sent on one output. They were the first to offer this and many competitors still don't have this feature. Again, calling them "lazy" seems at odds with reality.

I happen to like Standard-Horizon radios--as radios--and I find their NMEA-0183 interface is very easy to work with.

I was referring to the GX2200 with built-in GPS. I did not make the "lazy" NMEA comment (toddster8)-- I was only adding to the discussion RE: the different baud rates and NMEA sentences output by the radio. Personally, I found the implementation to be as designed and suit my purposes perfectly. I'm not expecting the VHF radio to replace my onboard NMEA network; but to complement with AIS at 38400 baud and the GPS sentences at 4800 baud. The VHF radio works as expected.

Where people have trouble with the NMEA output is expecting the AIS sentences to output on the 4800 baud pair of wires -- or expecting the radio and GPS to be more than intended. Certainly there are NMEA sentences with GPS data that the radio doesn't support. No big deal.

As I said, I have the GX2200 and I find it to be a very good radio.

Don

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I am afraid you are confused. I never mentioned anything about any lazy efforts, that must have been someone else

Oh, yes, sorry. It was some other fellow who condemned all Standard-Horizon products as having "lazy" NMEA-0183.

I guess that explains why you couldn't explain his thinking!

By the way, with regard to NMEA-2000 and VHF Marine Band radios, so far the track record has been a bit uneven.

I think NAVICO were first to offer NMEA-2000 in a communication radio, in the LINK-8 and RS-35, but there were some initial flaws. I think customers had to send the radios back to get firmware updates installed to make them work. Since NAVICO was already quite familiar with NMEA-2000 from using in in chart plotters and other devices, it seems reasonable they could build it into a radio without too much trouble.

ICOM came out with NMEA-2000 over a year ago, I recall, but then they had to take most of their radios off the market for a few months over some variance with the FCC about the DSC implementation. The NMEA-2000 model is back on the market. It seems to be doing okay except for some odd behavior if there are two of them on the same network. I don't think ICOM had experience with NMEA-2000 before this.

Standard-Horizon will have a NMEA-2000 radio on the market sometime soon, the GX6000. They make great radios, but it will be their first foray into NMEA-2000.

I am content to let the VHF Marine Radio with DSC and NMEA-2000 products mature for a while before I buy a new radio and get NMEA-2000 with it.