What else can be improved in the marine electronics space?

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

But even if you haven’t HF , a sat phone call to Falmouth MRCC will do the same job , anywhere in the world.

How many sat phone users actually have the RCC numbers? Here are the US ones https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Our-Organiz...R/RCC-Numbers/ . I once saw a global list but I can't lay my hands on it now. In all my deliveries on sat equipped boats I've never seen a list either on paper or in the phone memories.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

There are some important things missing from this discussion. In my experience software developers often do not fully understand what they are building, particularly around edge conditions. In the marine industry we see lots of stupid things from manufacturers. Also in the marine industry, reviewers (magazines, bloggers, etc.) don’t understand software development. Many barely understand more stressing applications and certainly not edge conditions.

Failure modes and effects analysis (FMEA) is disturbingly absent. Environmental factors including electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) and radio frequency information (RFI) don’t get adequate attention. As someone noted there are manufacturing shortfalls in potting and conformal coating. In the end, too many designs assume that everything always works.

I’m a big fan of OpenCPN. It’s in my delivery go-kit with GPS and AIS. I really like being able to quickly update all the charts to the latest before I leave home. The shortfall of OpenCPN is out of their control. Displays and controls aren’t waterproof. You can’t get sunlight readable displays that get bright enough. You can’t dim them enough for sailing at night. Industrial monitors that are waterproof (not resistant) come with price tags that look like a commercial MFD.

Touchscreens, at least offshore in weather, are horrible.

Integrated systems should be treated with suspicion. Think about failure modes. For example, the boat I just delivered had an integrated inverter-charger. A hatch leak led to a blown circuit breaker (buried in the boat and took two days—not full time—to find). Not only did we lose the inverter on a boat that depends on house power, we lost the ability to charge the batteries from the generator. Solar panels could not keep up with refrigeration and autopilot. I’ll take separate charger and inverter every time (and a 12VDC boat please—AC power is for convenience and luxury items).



This is a stunningly bad idea. See above about EMC and RFI. I’ve delivered boats with RF noise floors so high that the VHF squelch had to be up above halfway. Forget HF/SSB. I’ve seen Iridium GO! light up systems on boats with soft switches.

How would you feel if when you transmit on VHF the integrated system turns off your refrigeration? Or your engine?



If I remember correctly the Raymarine connectors have a single extra pin that carries either SeaTalk 1 or NMEA 0183. The idea has merit, and has noted converters are readily available – no electronics in them either, just wires.

The simple form factor converters allow seatalkng to mate to DeviceNet connectors. You loose the seatalkng centre pin function ( it’s to carry seatalk not 0183,)

The Seatalk to to seatalkng converter Raymarine supplies clearly has electronics least there be some confusion

My original point being that if you want a devicenet based n2K it can be easily done even with Ray gear

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The simple form factor converters allow seatalkng to mate to DeviceNet connectors. You loose the seatalkng centre pin function ( it’s to carry seatalk not 0183,)

I vaguely remember a chartplotter setting to put 0183 over the center pin. Did I dream it?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

I vaguely remember a chartplotter setting to put 0183 over the center pin. Did I dream it?

Seatalkng specifies the centre pin is for Seatalk

In fact in my mfd the eS hybrid touch, it’s the only way to access Seatalk , 0183 being a separate connector

[Hesti]

With most instruments you buy, you have to cut big holes into the bulkhead. I would not mind drilling small holes for power and signal, but cutting like 3 inch dia holes for each instrument is so previous millenium.

Also, most instruments plus fitted connectors protrude a lot into the interior of the boat when bulkhead fitted.

So - an instrument, that only requires say a 1/2 inch hole in the bulkhead with nothing protruding inside - that would be a real progress.

It is possible, the Raymarine (former tak-tik) solar powered radio signal fed line of instruments does not need any holes in the bulkhead, if you glue them onto the bulkhead ...

But apart from that rather special series, it is taking out the big hole saw, cutting open your boat and afterwards wondering how to cover the protruding parts including connectors ...

At the moment, I am looking into replacing an old autohelm instrument due to bad readability. A Raymarine i50 would work with the old sensors, but for the Raymarine, I have to make the hole in the bulkhead even bigger than it already is for the 1990s autohelm. So much for technical progress ...

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Hesti

With most instruments you buy, you have to cut big holes into the bulkhead. I would not mind drilling small holes for power and signal, but cutting like 3 inch dia holes for each instrument is so previous millenium.

Also, most instruments plus fitted connectors protrude a lot into the interior of the boat when bulkhead fitted.

So - an instrument, that only requires say a 1/2 inch hole in the bulkhead with nothing protruding inside - that would be a real progress.

It is possible, the Raymarine (former tak-tik) solar powered radio signal fed line of instruments does not need any holes in the bulkhead, if you glue them onto the bulkhead ...

But apart from that rather special series, it is taking out the big hole saw, cutting open your boat and afterwards wondering how to cover the protruding parts including connectors ...

At the moment, I am looking into replacing an old autohelm instrument due to bad readability. A Raymarine i50 would work with the old sensors, but for the Raymarine, I have to make the hole in the bulkhead even bigger than it already is for the 1990s autohelm. So much for technical progress ...

Perhaps your boat won't accommodate, but mostly what I've seen are instruments affixed to pieces of marine ply, which in turn are affixed to bulkheads. This way the bulkhead itself remains intact.

[Auspicious]

Bulkhead mounted instruments mean sight line problems when people sit in front of them. My preferred location is across the top of the companionway, under the dodger, forward of the slide. Visible from anywhere in the cockpit and only blocked briefly when people are passing in or out.

This also solves the hole saw problem.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Kudos on having your monitor under the dodger. That's generally where one stands watch and it should be near to hand. By the time you need to get behind the wheel there isn't much need for messing about with the plotter. Extra credit for why the port side is marginally better than starboard for the display.

Yes, I remembered the extra credit points, but must confess to not being able to follow through on this one. I have a large winch for the outhaul under the dodger on the port side, so the monitor lives to starboard. Only a minor infraction hopefully.

Then there is the discussion of whether Windows is appropriate for mission critical applications, or Win10 for cruising.

Wouldn't mind hearing more about this one. Less reliable than whatever OS the name brand mfgs. use? Come to think of it, I did hear about one cruiser who lost all his OpenCPN charts on his PC while offshore. He attributed it to a Win10 auto-update while he was briefly docked overnight. Cannot confirm that one, but may be worth updating manually if planning to sail offshore.

John Macdougall KA4WJA about mine since you won’t take my word for it anyway.

For anyone interested, John has a series of basic tutorials on youTube for the M802, along with many informative posts here on CF and elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Auspicious

An additional role, tablets are convenient for keeping an eye on progress from one's bunk without making crew feel hovered over.

Yes, along with AIS and instrument data for those sailing solo or short-handed. It's good to see a couple of the major mfgs. making this available through proprietary apps, although this shouldn't be confused with actual redundancy.

Originally Posted by Auspicious

How many sat phone users actually have the RCC numbers? Here are the US ones https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Our-Organiz...R/RCC-Numbers/ . I once saw a global list but I can't lay my hands on it now. In all my deliveries on sat equipped boats I've never seen a list either on paper or in the phone memories.

Sounds all too obvious, but I suspect forgetting to have these numbers uploaded or posted before going offshore is all too common. I think I will print these out in the event they have changed over the years. Thanks.

[AKA-None]

I personally don’t care for touch screens when I’m all rolly in the cockpit I personally want buttons.
Let me also point out that most of this thread is about solutions but I’ve not seen much on defining what problems needs to be addressed, or did I miss that somewhere?

[Pizzazz]

Here is my take on what could make marine electronics more effective:

a) Simpler to use. I want to come to the boat, tell the boat to take me to Catalina in plain English and the boat to respond: “Here is the suggested course, captain. Max wind/waves will be this. You can have a shorter journey if you depart 2 hours later. Please, note the diesel tank is only 1/3 full. Shall I start the engine for you?”

b) Always connected, via cell phone, in reach and starlink. Once we have a reliable broadband connection, all sorts of new apps and services will pop up, even AIS may become unnecessary as it will be all done online. SSB will clearly be long forgotten. Not sure about radar, I would still like to have a radar on board but it may be cheaper to do it all online. You should be able to access the weather or radar sensors of neighboring boats easily.

c) cheap and powerful displays of various sizes. At present this means iPads. The latest are high brightness, resistant to water and super easy to use. You may have an odd, all fashioned marine display to use when it rains or if it is so sunny that the iPad overheats but for most cases, the convenience and speed of the iPad makes it no contest to any marine display.

d) marine electronics is very costly to install. Anything that saves on installation cost will be welcome. Think wireless, think network effects and so on.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Exile

… stuff snipped …

Regarding monitor under the dodger to port or starboard no infraction at all. As I said a minor benefit. If you put the plotter to port then that becomes to default watch station, huddled in the corner. Every time you look up you see stand-on traffic to your give-way. On the starboard side they are behind you and get first glimpse of traffic that should be giving way to you. Minor, but all other things being equal why not?

You have a winch in the way. That could lead to a discussion of the pros and cons of lines back to the cockpit which while interesting is off topic for this thread.

You put your finger on a big chunk of my issue with Windows. It, especially Win10, wants to phone home all the time. This gets expensive and time consuming over satellite and even cellular in many places. In addition, stuff that is working stops working especially drivers for niche products that don’t get a lot of attention in Redmond. You can dial back with the policy editor or by setting connections to metered but sometimes Windows thinks it is smarter than you and updates anyway.

[RaymondR]

I controlled my Raymarine ST4000 autopilot with a 10" Asus notebook using OpenCPN and a USB GPS and an RS422/485 to USB converter for nmea 0183 to the autopilot head. The rig also had AIS using a GME AISR120 receiver through a second converter and a multiport USB hub.

As a backup I had a tablet running Windows 8 but since, other than the occasional test, I never used it cannot vouch for it's long term reliability. Worked every tome I tested it though.

I found that Windows 7 was extremely reliable provided OpenCPN was the only program other than the operating system on the computer.

I used this arrangement for thousands of miles of coastal cruising over about a ten year period and would probably still be using it had I not changed boats.

[JC Reefer]

When based on land I like to keep marine aquariums. Like sailing, it’s something I have dove into over the years. My aquarium has a basic controller that allows me to monitor different metrics. It also allows me complete control to turn on or off any items running the tank.

I’d like to see a controller for my vessel like I have for my tank. When at dock or even onboard I’d like have everything accessible to my GPS plus the bilge water level, tank levels and also be able to turn off or on anything on the electrical panel.

The device I have is an apex controller and it allow using to include their own custom code to help automate tasks.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

How many sat phone users actually have the RCC numbers? Here are the US ones https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Our-Organiz...R/RCC-Numbers/ . I once saw a global list but I can't lay my hands on it now. In all my deliveries on sat equipped boats I've never seen a list either on paper or in the phone memories.

I’ve always had from day 1 MRCC Falmouth in the sat Phone ( that’s the only number you need worldwide )

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

Here is my take on what could make marine electronics more effective:

a) Simpler to use. I want to come to the boat, tell the boat to take me to Catalina in plain English and the boat to respond: “Here is the suggested course, captain. Max wind/waves will be this. You can have a shorter journey if you depart 2 hours later. Please, note the diesel tank is only 1/3 full. Shall I start the engine for you?”

b) Always connected, via cell phone, in reach and starlink. Once we have a reliable broadband connection, all sorts of new apps and services will pop up, even AIS may become unnecessary as it will be all done online. SSB will clearly be long forgotten. Not sure about radar, I would still like to have a radar on board but it may be cheaper to do it all online. You should be able to access the weather or radar sensors of neighboring boats easily.

c) cheap and powerful displays of various sizes. At present this means iPads. The latest are high brightness, resistant to water and super easy to use. You may have an odd, all fashioned marine display to use when it rains or if it is so sunny that the iPad overheats but for most cases, the convenience and speed of the iPad makes it no contest to any marine display.

d) marine electronics is very costly to install. Anything that saves on installation cost will be welcome. Think wireless, think network effects and so on.

(A) is a truely terrifying prospect ( by the way , watch “ the boat “ on Netflix ) , I can only imagine the voice response

“ terribly sorry captain , it seems my automatic route was based on a 19th century survey that missed the rock we just hit , after hitting the unidentifed objrct , that my AIS and radar sadly didn’t pick up “ , “ you will now die “ , “ please contact customer support after the incident for an update “

I still carry my sextant , and remember the golden rule of modern navigation “ keep looking out the **uking window “