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quartersplash · 12-09-2020, 14:02

Good afternoon Brian,
I like your idea.
Does it make any difference what side vinyl
coated wire to use? Like the stuff that they sell at home depot?
I installed a small ground plane when I hauled out and I can connect a few through hulls also if that would help.
Thanks,
Gary

If you have a free or spare halyard, you can run an alternate backstay antenna. It is not load bearing nor a part of the standing rigging so you can take it down whenever you want. It is made of vinyl coated wire rope and the length is on the order of 43 feet. If that will not fit then 23 feet will work.

For the other half of the antenna you can connect the turner's ground lug to any thru hull (as long as it is some kind of metal). This will connect you to the sea water.

This would be the least expensive solution and probably work as well as a 1/4 wave vertical.

JMHO
__________________
Brian D
KF6BL
S/V Takara

quartersplash · 12-09-2020, 14:06

Thanks for the replies. I actually moved to Sierra Vista Arizona 6 months ago and am only a 5 1/2 hour drive to San Carlos. I had it shipped from Florida a couple of months ago. I am tired of dealing with hurricanes, tornados, humidity, and bugs, along with high re taxes and sky high homeowners ins. Was paying $1700 per mont for just taxes and insurance! Told my wife,"We can take the kids on lots of adventures for $1700 per month! Were outta here.

RaymondR · 12-09-2020, 14:09

My vertical dipole TV antenna at the top of the mast is 2 pieces of 1" thin walled aluminium tube inside the fibre glass, telescoping extension handle for a paint roller. You could do the same with a single length of alloy inside the rube clamped to a rail at the stern.

Brian.D · 12-09-2020, 14:58

@quartersplash, Bill Trayfor (WA6CCA (SK)) used 1/8" life line for his vertical dipole antennas. He had two of them, one for 20m cut to 14300 KHz, and another one cut to the 8000KHZ band.

Although a vertical dipole would work better in you want to stay on a static frequency, it might not work on your boat because the feed coax might get in the way of the boom. But this antenna can actually be located anywhere there is space. Bill had his vertical dipoles forward. You can read about it here.

1/8" wire rope would be equal to 8AWG wire. You might be better off with 1/16" wire rope which is about the size of 14AWG wire. I would recommend a marine supply store but I got mine off of eBay. The vinyl coating is not really needed, it is more of an insulator protecting anyone from RF burns if the touch the antenna during transmit.

Don't forget the GTO15 from the turner to the antenna. This length of wire will be included in the total length of the antenna.

As mentioned above of using a counterpoise is also a good idea. This counterpoise in conjunction with a sea water connection to ground will not hurt anything. John MacDougall, KA4WJA, has done testing on the KISS system, and has stated a home made KISS is as good as the commercial version. https://briandphoto.net/KISS-SSB.html

For sea water connection, read this short article by Gordon West. This is why I am a strong proponent of sea water connections for SSB.

Again, just giving options as your choice of antenna is based on what will work on your boat.

JMHO

**s/v Jedi** · 12-09-2020, 15:44

FYI I believe Amel just tiewraps an insulated wire to a capshroud and I’m told that works.

I plan to switch from the vertical whip to an insulated forestay of my mizzen. I have two forestays that go up to the base of the 2nd spreaders. I will get about 35’ out of that and believe it’ll work okay on my smart-tuner.

quartersplash · 14-09-2020, 12:57

Good afternoon Brian,
Thanks for your suggestions. I am trying to figure out what length ss wire to use for my antenna. I have an auto tuner. And am just going to be using my radio for the cruisers nets in the sea of Cortes, and for sail mail. I am not sure what frequencies those are yet. With the auto tuner, do I need to worry about the length within reason? Thanks again.
Gary

Bycrick · 14-09-2020, 13:47

Most common antenna tuners will need a minimum length of about 23’ to tune well at lower frequencies. Somewhat longer will work too. If it’s "too long" you might have trouble at some higher frequency. Mine is a little over 30’ and seems to work on all the frequencies. Remember that the length is measured fro the tuner on the antenna tuner terminal, not what’s above deck.

Brian.D · 14-09-2020, 18:28

quartersplash, 23' (min) to 43' (max) is good. Modern tuners are capable of tuning even harmonic frequencies. Older turners not so much. Bycrick is correct about the start of the antenna.

Just to make sure the antenna will not interfere with the operation of the mainsail, I would recommend running a rope from the point where the feed will exit the stern, to the top of the mast. Then raise you main. Check to see if there is clearance for the leach of the mainsail, as mentioned by S/V Jedi.

GRIT · 14-06-2021, 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

FYI I believe Amel just tiewraps an insulated wire to a capshroud and I’m told that works.

Can anyone with an Amel comment on this? I'm about to purchase a new M802 (I don't like the 803) and am searching for an antenna solution for our Cat.

I have an old Shakespeare antenna I thought I'd use until I find something a little more subtle. I'll certainly try it anyway. Thanks for the idea Jedi.

Thanks.

Cheers.
Paul.

**s/v Jedi** · 14-06-2021, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRIT

Can anyone with an Amel comment on this? I'm about to purchase a new M802 (I don't like the 803) and am searching for an antenna solution for our Cat.

I have an old Shakespeare antenna I thought I'd use until I find something a little more subtle. I'll certainly try it anyway. Thanks for the idea Jedi.

Thanks.

Cheers.
Paul.

If you have Dyneema stays you can even bury an antenna wire inside it.

GRIT · 15-06-2021, 01:13

Thanks Jedi. We didn't go with Dyneema for the stays, but running the antenna within a stay works well with my ethos.

I remember, with our first SSB back in the 90's, there were many rules about keeping the antennae away from wires in parallel, to stop the second wire absorbing the signal. There were all kinds of rules about the ground plane too.

I also remember that many of those "rules" were broken by most boats, out of convenience, or ignorance, and they still seemed to work fine; some better than others, but mostly fine.

In any case, back in the day, there was no way anyone would suggest using an antenna next to another wire, let alone attached to it. But now there's this: https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=332511 , and people swear by it.

I also remember how finicky the ground plane had to be, with either sintered bronze plates, or every piece of metal touching the water linked with 2" copper ribbon. Now we have this: https://seatech.systems/product/kiss...-plane-system/ , and people swear by it.

I'm thinking I could save some money by using our old toaster as a counterpoise, and the AM radio antenna from an old Buick roadmaster, and the darn thing would likely work (at least in the higher bands).

HF antennae have always been a little hocus pocus, so I'm going to try the "Amel" trick you mentioned. Aesthetically, it's perfect. It also keeps my wire runs from the nav station short. I may even try the Kiss ground, though I still have 15 metres of 2" copper in my parts bin, so I might run that too.

This is an informative thread; thanks to all for posting.

Cheers.
Paul.

**s/v Jedi** · 15-06-2021, 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRIT

Thanks Jedi. We didn't go with Dyneema for the stays, but running the antenna within a stay works well with my ethos.

I remember, with our first SSB back in the 90's, there were many rules about keeping the antennae away from wires in parallel, to stop the second wire absorbing the signal. There were all kinds of rules about the ground plane too.

I also remember that many of those "rules" were broken by most boats, out of convenience, or ignorance, and they still seemed to work fine; some better than others, but mostly fine.

In any case, back in the day, there was no way anyone would suggest using an antenna next to another wire, let alone attached to it. But now there's this: https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=332511 , and people swear by it.

I also remember how finicky the ground plane had to be, with either sintered bronze plates, or every piece of metal touching the water linked with 2" copper ribbon. Now we have this: https://seatech.systems/product/kiss...-plane-system/ , and people swear by it.

I'm thinking I could save some money by using our old toaster as a counterpoise, and the AM radio antenna from an old Buick roadmaster, and the darn thing would likely work (at least in the higher bands).

HF antennae have always been a little hocus pocus, so I'm going to try the "Amel" trick you mentioned. Aesthetically, it's perfect. It also keeps my wire runs from the nav station short. I may even try the Kiss ground, though I still have 15 metres of 2" copper in my parts bin, so I might run that too.

This is an informative thread; thanks to all for posting.

Cheers.
Paul.

I think even a GTO15 wire tie wrapped to a stay will work. I like to see free standing verticals but I’ve seen almost everything work just fine. When propagation is bad I’m sure the difference will be noticeable but I use a good window even with optimal antenna so never profit from it anyway.

belizesailor · 15-06-2021, 05:35

Years ago as a temporary test when installing SSB, I connected the antenna lead to a side stay on my catamaran. It worked so well that I made it permanent. It goes against conventional thought on SSB antennas, but works great.