What's the Best Wind Sensor?

[ChrisseH]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Terve, ChrisseH. So you're using a CV7 for racing? How does it compare to mechanical sensors made for racing? Since the great majority of racers are still using mechanical ones, I had the impression that the mechanical ones are still more accurate.


I've been using ultrasonic wind sensors for many years, first a WSO100 which was not very accurate and not reliable, now a CV7. It seems to be quite accurate but I am still gaining experience with it.

Terve Dockhead, I have (from CF) noticed that you have done quite a bit of sailing here in Finland :-)


Mechanical wind sensors is the safe way to go and all major boating electronics companies manufacture their own (mechanical) wind sensors. And early ultrasonic wind sensors had indeed challenges, but the technology is now gradually maturing. In professional meteorology ultrasonic wind sensors are now used in more than 90% of all new installations.


Also I have been using mechanical wind sensors in the past. They work quite well, but if you want to make serious measurements you need to change the bearings at least every second year. If not, the sensor will not perform well during light air downwind sailing (which is not a problem for a cruising sailor, who then typically use the engine). Ultrasonic wind sensors have not this problem nor have they problems related to the inertial properties of rotating devices. The latter means that a mechanical and an ultrasonic sensor have somewhat different characteristics in gusty conditions. This doesn't mean that ultrasonic sensors are perfect either. Below 2 kts of wind also ultrasonic measurements are gradually less accurate.



No matter if you use a mechanical or an ultrasonic wind sensor, the quality of the wind measurement is ultimately dependent on how well the system is calibrated and compensated for heel, leeway and possible upwash. And here I think especially B&G has done a good job in offering users means to to do all this. And if their mechanical sensors work well why should they bother to go through the heavy process of changing sensing technology? Also I would love to use a B&G 700 series wind sensor with the highest carbon pole, but it is at least three times the cost of the CV7-C and l would still need to change bearings on regular basis.

[DiverSailor]

Greetings!

My second Maretron WSO100, just died... it was a painful death.. I really liked the NMEA2000 hookup that was very simple and the wind direction and speed were always great.... I rode out Hurricane Sally in Pensacola area bayou and kept it on the whole time.. saw 84 then peaked at 88kts!

My first one i had bought used on eBay that lasted about 6 months.. I was able to get it open... wet..
This NEW one over 2 years.. (NOT LONG ENOUGH!!0 It did not show up on the Garmin system... then it did and worked the rest of the day... next day.. dead..

I called Maretron today and talked to the tech folks.. and they are building a new one, the WSO200, that will have 6 sensors and can be disassembled if needed.. and with MUCH better waterproofing (ya think?!) It is in final testing and should be out by the end of the 2020... will it be the best one? I do not know.. but if they give owners of the WSO100 and much better deal.. I just may get one... Not wild about dealing with the French or systems that are not just NMEA2000 plug & play.. 0183.. maybe.. birds have not been an issue..

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by DiverSailor

. . . Not wild about dealing with the French or systems that are not just NMEA2000 plug & play.. 0183.. maybe.. birds have not been an issue..

The "French one" is available with an adapter for N2K -- works great.



In order to avoid pulling an 0183 cable (or using the ancient one already in there), I put the adapter at the unit, and connected it directly to the N2K cable up there.

[George_SD]

What about the NASA Marine?
https://www.svb24.com/en/nasa-marine...nd-system.html

[thunderhoof]

I recently installed the LJC CV7 SIL which communicates directly with my Silva NX2 server. LJC makes models for different applications. I removed all the angular calibration offsets from the server leaving only the installation offset which I will tweek. For a high end installation I would consider the 4/sec update model. I am happy with the standard 2/sec update rate.

[Dockhead]

I am able to update this now.


I just sailed 4000 miles on a Discovery 67 which had just had a complete electronics refit according to my specifications.


I decided to play it safe and use the tall B&G racing wind instrument (the one that cost €4000+), connected through an H5000 computer.


We were supposed to have an Airmar DX900+ speed log to get true wind, but it wasn't delivered, and in the event we have not had good boat speed data. In Las Palmas before sailing to Cape Verdes we replaced the original dead paddlewheel speed log with a new Airmar smart paddlewheel sensor, but the data from this was also not clean. So we are still not really calibrated for true wind. But despite this, I still got the best wind data I've ever had in any boat. The apparent wind data is apparently dead on, and the true wind even with the wonky speed log is better than I ever had on my boat.


The LJC CV7 I put on my boat a few years ago was a big leap forward from the Maretron WSO100 I had previously. But I'm afraid that as much as I would like to hope that ultrasonic wind has just got to be better -- well professional weather stations use them, don't they? -- I have concluded that it is not, after all. It seems you can't beat the tall B&G racing wind instrument. Not at all. So I think I will ditch my CV7 this spring and spring for the B&G, even if the cost makes my eyes water.



One data point, and one opinion, FWIW.

[ChrisseH]

Hi Dockhead, hope you are well.


Which B&G wind sensor version did you select for your friend's Discovery 67 ?


The B&G wind sensors are definitely good, especially the WS710. And when used together with the H5000 I bet you can enjoy all the advantages such as the sensor specific heel compensation etc. Am not sure, but I guess also the measurement frequency is higher than 4 Hz, which enables some filtering in the CPU resulting in smoother overall behavior. And if you have the tall vertical masthead unit upwash is neither a problem. The only remaining challenge is that the bearings need to be changed every now and then. And if the sensor is mainly used for cruising, a slightly higher start-up threshold value for wind speed is not really a major problem.


By-the-way, did you notice that LCJ Capteurs recently launched a new version of their CV7 sensor? It is called CV7-HR. According to the advertisement email I got from them it is especially intended to be used with autopilots in fast ocean going racing boats such as Imoca 60 etc. The wind speed and wind angle is internally calculated at 120 Hz and the transmission speed is 38400 baud.


Best Regards,
Christer

[seandepagnier]

I have been using my own 3d printed wind sensors for a few years.

There are fully ceramic bearings which really never wear out. output nmea at 10hz with 0.1 degree accuracy. It works well with my autopilot.

The autopilot compensates the wind sensors for boat motion using the gyroscopes

The only failure is an ice storm prevented the cups rotating, but the vane continued to work because it is on top and did not allow ice in. Once the ice thaw it is working fine again.

If you consider what it really cost to make a wind sensor the cost is very small. I sold a few for $50 to make a profit as I have to use potting compound to seal the hall sensors and solder the wires to the circuit board.

[Plumbean]

I'm the one that started the thread on SA that Dockhead linked to in his original post to this. I ended up installing an LCJ CV7 and my experience was not great. The unit worked fine for a bit, but it died after only 2 years (conveniently just out of warranty) and LCJ offered to sell me a new one at a slight discount. With the discount, it still would have been hundreds of dollars more than the B&G WS310 that I installed in its place. Not exactly great customer service especially since they admitted to me that they had some quality control problems. So far (1 year) I have been happy with the WS310. I also suspect that there are no good solutions out there that are accurate, stable and long-lasting ...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Plumbean

I'm the one that started the thread on SA that Dockhead linked to in his original post to this. I ended up installing an LCJ CV7 and my experience was not great. The unit worked fine for a bit, but it died after only 2 years (conveniently just out of warranty) and LCJ offered to sell me a new one at a slight discount. With the discount, it still would have been hundreds of dollars more than the B&G WS310 that I installed in its place. Not exactly great customer service especially since they admitted to me that they had some quality control problems. So far (1 year) I have been happy with the WS310. I also suspect that there are no good solutions out there that are accurate, stable and long-lasting ...

Thanks; a very useful data point. Thanks for coming into the thread.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ChrisseH

Hi Dockhead, hope you are well.


Which B&G wind sensor version did you select for your friend's Discovery 67 ?


The B&G wind sensors are definitely good, especially the WS710. And when used together with the H5000 I bet you can enjoy all the advantages such as the sensor specific heel compensation etc. Am not sure, but I guess also the measurement frequency is higher than 4 Hz, which enables some filtering in the CPU resulting in smoother overall behavior. And if you have the tall vertical masthead unit upwash is neither a problem. The only remaining challenge is that the bearings need to be changed every now and then. And if the sensor is mainly used for cruising, a slightly higher start-up threshold value for wind speed is not really a major problem.


By-the-way, did you notice that LCJ Capteurs recently launched a new version of their CV7 sensor? It is called CV7-HR. According to the advertisement email I got from them it is especially intended to be used with autopilots in fast ocean going racing boats such as Imoca 60 etc. The wind speed and wind angle is internally calculated at 120 Hz and the transmission speed is 38400 baud.


Best Regards,
Christer

Hey Christer!


I chose the tall racing one, the WS730.


I have been extremely impressed with it over 4000 miles of sailing.


Interesting how the new LCJ Capteurs model stacks up in comparison.


I need to decide soon for my own boat.

[forwardvoyage]

sometime to look at , they have done about 5 years of design evolution, seems to be stablized on the current refinement. The wind data may look different from other windsensors due to the design of the wind cups while a boat is healing may actually be more accurate then tradational windcups that have a different performance if measuring wind at a angle.

https://www.sailtimerwind.com/

[chowdan]

Well my WSO100 i think has failed. Getting random readings ranging from 2knts to 115knts. Incredibly inaccurate for what actually is happening. Also seeing 100% humidity most of the time, sometimes down to 88% but now i'm on the hunt for a new sensor - most of ym gear is navico based, so likely to go that route(B&G problably).

How are the mechanical sensors working @Dockhead? Still liking after 4000+ nm?

[SV TANE]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

So as a follow up to previoust posts, I did install the LJ Capteurs sensor last summer and used it for a fail few thousands of miles of sailing.


I'm very pleased with it so far. It seems noticeably more accurate and consistent than the WSO100. So far no problems at all with it, knock on wood.



The WAY I installed it was to cut off the long four-conductor mast cable and mount the N2K adapter close to the sensor, then connect to the existing N2K cable in the mast which had been used by the WSO100. So far working fine. But next time the mast is down I will consider reinstating the lighter four-conductor mast cable, which I saved, and connect to N2K below decks.

Hi, quick question;
I am getting ready to install a CV7 and am wondering if I have to have the bow facing North when mounting the sensors north mark toward the bow? Or can I just mount the sensor's North mark to the bow and my chart plotter will talk to the CV7 and know the direction? Thanks for any help you can give.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by SV TANE

Hi, quick question;
I am getting ready to install a CV7 and am wondering if I have to have the bow facing North when mounting the sensors north mark toward the bow? Or can I just mount the sensor's North mark to the bow and my chart plotter will talk to the CV7 and know the direction? Thanks for any help you can give.

The easiest solution is to make sure the CV7 is mounted so it is facing directly forward. If this not done there is some software that can used to align the sensor, but it is a bit clunky to use and requires some additional wiring.

Once the CV7 is reading apparent wind correctly, whether because it was aligned when mounted or adjusted with the software, your chart-plotter will display the correct true wind referenced to your bow or to a compass heading, providing you have a chart-plotter or other device capable of making the calculation (most chart-plotters will do this) and the required other inputs such as speed through water and boat heading.