Why do VHF radios only come with a AIS receiver not a transceiver?

[transmitterdan]

Even having two AIS receivers can be a challenge if both receivers feed data to the same MFD. Some displays get confused in that case. The NMEA standard never really considered the case of multiple receivers.

[svmobert]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

Even having two AIS receivers can be a challenge if both receivers feed data to the same MFD. Some displays get confused in that case. The NMEA standard never really considered the case of multiple receivers.

This is easily mitigated though.. All of the VHF Radios with AIS receivers I have touched have the ability to disable sending AIS over NMEA.. So you can designate which AIS receiver to put data onto the NMEA network, and set the VHF to ignore your own MMSI if you also have a transponder on board (at least in the case of the Icom M506, as well as other VHF radios).

In my opinion, based on my own offshore use of, and retail selling of VHF, DSC, AIS devices, you should have an AIS transponder (transmitting to other vessels) which implies having a receiver. If you have a VHF radio with an AIS receiver built-in, just disable the VHF radios ability to sent AIS over NMEA and get the AIS data to your plotter from the transponder, which can be a black box style unit.

If you don't have a VHF radio with an AIS receiver built-in, then an AIS Transponder with a display (Vesper Vision, Icom MA500, etc) is better since you can select targets on the display and call them on your VHF via DSC.

An MFD/Chartplotter can also be used as an AIS display (and should be integrated into some AIS receiver on board) but most chartplotters cannot initiate a VHF DSC call using AIS information, hence my recommendation of having it in your radio, or having an AIS transponder with a display.

There seems to be a lot of worry about multiple AIS receivers, NMEA, etc.. But if you can read the manual and understand a little about NMEA, you can resolve all of these issues and have a fully functional, redundant (if desired) system without the downsides discussed so often.

Just my $0.02.

Note: I do research, create wiring diagrams, and provide configuration settings for my customers to handle all of these things, often involving existing equipment they have on board as well as new equipment they are adding.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by Sea-TechSystems

Good thing it's updatable then.. In fact the most recent firmware update from Icom for the m506 came out November 7th.

Nice. Do you happen to know the revision numbers for the various components?

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by Sea-TechSystems

This is easily mitigated though.. All of the VHF Radios with AIS receivers I have touched have the ability to disable sending AIS over NMEA..

Are you sure about that? I don't think you have any control over that in the M506. It's one if the issues I reported to them several years ago. The M506 sends all sorts of N2K PGNs even though it doesn't (and sometimes can't possibly) have the data. It confuses the crap out of other devices

[svmobert]

I may have misspoke on the 506.. If you have an NMEA2000+AIS version, then it seems it will always output AIS on the NMEA2000 bus. Though it will NEVER output AIS on the NMEA0183. So if you don't want it to send AIS data to the NMEA2000 bus, either get a non-AIS version, or connect it with NMEA0183 only, so that it can still receive GPS and send DSC.

As far as the issues you mentioned, this might help....

From the m506 support FAQ:

Question:

My M506 is on an NMEA2000 network. The GPS is erratic and the radio can disappear from the network device list. What is wrong?

Answer:

You must have the GPS antenna selected in the NMEA2000 settings. Any other NMEA devices selected may cause GPS conflicts, which can result in inaccuracies of any equipment on the NMEA network bus.

Question:

My new M506 does not show the correct AIS information on the plotter: the boats are always pointed in one direction. Sometimes the M506 won't pass AIS information to other devices on the same MNEA 2000 netowork.

Answer:

Upgrade the M506 firmware to v1.002 or greater. The UX-232 firmware should also be upgraded to v1.002.

---------------------------------------------------

Firmware Information:


To Check your version:: Menu -> MMSI/GPS -> Scroll down to SW Ver and UX-232 Ver.

Firmware Version, Associated Software
Update Summary*
Introduction Date

Main v1.101, UX-232 v1.007, v1.3
Fixed loss of GNSS position with Latitude and Longitude near 0 degrees. 11/07/2018

Main v1.101, UX-232 v1.006, v1.3
Updated DSC
2/22/2018

Main v1.1, UX-232 v1.006, v1.3
Improved GPS over NMEA bus
10/18/2016

Main v1.1, UX-232 v1.005, v1.3, v1.2
Improved DSC performance
9/29/2016

Main v1.004, UX-232 v1.005, v1.1
hang up during device search fix.
3/2/2016

Icom ic-m506 Firmware updates...
(You need two Icom cables, OPC-980 + OPC-478UC, to perform the update, technically a dealer needs to do this, and only dealers can download the firmware I believe)

[rsn48]

I'm not the brightest light on the Xmas tree when it comes to electronics and electrical, but the way I understand it, and I definitely could be wrong, does the Icom 605 radio come with both send and receive AIS transmissions? I'm taking this copy and paste from the Steveston Marine site showing features of this VHF radio.

"Integrated AIS* Receiver

The M605 with the integrated AIS receiver can show AIS vessel traffic information on the display. The AIS combo screen enables you to monitor the AIS plotter during basic operation. The M605 also allows the user to directly call a selected AIS target from the AIS screen using an individual DSC all."

[transmitterdan]

No the M605 does not transmit AIS. It only receives.

[boat driver]

M605 with the integrated AIS receiver- is only a receiver- with the ability to electronically call the MMSI number (rather than type in) to the target highlighted.

According tot he manufactures two transmitters in the same VHF creates a huge conflict of radiation noise and other things- as well as makes the radio only compatible to the recreational market.

as far as two transponders on one vessel? that would be illegal as the vessel only has one MMSI number.

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by Sea-TechSystems

Icom ic-m506 Firmware updates...
(You need two Icom cables, OPC-980 + OPC-478UC, to perform the update, technically a dealer needs to do this, and only dealers can download the firmware I believe)

I don't think it is too difficult to assemble the two cables; the cost is about $75.

It also seems easy to get the communication software, the CS-506; the cost is about $87.

The roadblock seems to be getting legitimate firmware updater software. I don't see it available from ICOM on their various websites.

I also suspect that in the USA, in order to make modifications to a VHF Marine Band DSC radio the person installing the modifications may be required to hold an FCC General Radio Operators License (GROL) or perhaps also hold a GMDSS Maintainer license.

If Sea-TechSystems could comment on that, I would like to hear his view.

[svmobert]

Originally Posted by continuouswave

I don't think it is too difficult to assemble the two cables; the cost is about $75.

It also seems easy to get the communication software, the CS-506; the cost is about $87.

The roadblock seems to be getting legitimate firmware updater software. I don't see it available from ICOM on their various websites.

I also suspect that in the USA, in order to make modifications to a VHF Marine Band DSC radio the person installing the modifications may be required to hold an FCC General Radio Operators License (GROL) or perhaps also hold a GMDSS Maintainer license.

If Sea-TechSystems could comment on that, I would like to hear his view.

As an Icom dealer I have access to the cables and the software, but I am not allowed to sell/provide the software. The updates are supposed to be done by a dealer. I know that some people have found copies of various Icom software online or from other users in some cases, but it's not strictly allowed.

The best option would be to find a local Icom dealer to where you are and have them do the update. Incidentally, this is a similar process to changing the MMSI number on a radio that has already been programmed and cannot be programmed again.

There is a "cloning" software that you can use to do all sorts of edits to the radios also. For example you can change the soft buttons, disable and enable channels, rearrange things. But again, this is dealer-only software.

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by Sea-TechSystems

...The updates are supposed to be done by a dealer.

Yes, I am sure ICOM wants its radios to by updated only by its dealers, and that can certainly be understood in the context of their corporate policy.

But I am curious if there is any regulatory restriction. In the USA, the FCC prohibits end-users from making adjustments to certain categories of radio transmitters unless the person making the adjustments holds a certain category of FCC license.

Also, in the case of a DSC radio, the radio can only be sold if it meets stringent specifications. Since some of the updates modify the DSC behavior of the radio, there might also be some regulatory restriction.

The situation seems to me to be somewhat akin to propulsion engines in the USA. Most categories of propulsion engines must meet certain standards for exhaust gas emission, and making adjustments or modifications to those engines is not permitted except by the manufacturer or his representative. I think there may be a similar process with a regulated transmitter and particularly with a VHF Marine Band DSC radio. The manufacturer is probably not going to let the end user fiddle with the radio firmware.

Also, the whole process of installing firmware is somewhat like a person doing brain surgery on themselves. If anything goes wrong with a firmware update installation, the outcome is often a completely dead device. To recover from a bad firmware update process would probably be impossible for the end user to accomplish. So firmware updates are probably best left to the manufacturer and his authorized agents.

[Rusty007]

Why is it so hard for Icom to update. Other radios can be updated MFD.

[svmobert]

Originally Posted by Rusty007

Why is it so hard for Icom to update. Other radios can be updated MFD.

Icom and Standard Horizon are Radio manufacturers first.. "Other" Radios that can be updated by the MFD would be radios made by the same manufacturer as the MFD. So for example, if you have an all B&G System, or all Raymarine system you may be able to upgrade the radio from the MFD, but it's extremely unlikely that you could upgrade a B&G Radio from a Raymarine MFD or vice-versa. Since Icom doesn't make their own MFD, there is no way to do it.

B&G V50 radio can be updated via the MFD, but the wireless mic can't.. Only a dealer can update that. So it's not all roses over there either.

That said, I would love for it to be easy to keep marine electronics in general updated. It's heading that way, I suspect in time we will see a whole new series of radios that are software based, which will likely change the game.

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by Rusty007

Why is it so hard for Icom to update[?] Other radios can be updated MFD.

Please mention specifically what other brands and models of VHF Marine Band DSC radios can be more easily updated than the ICOM radio by using a multi-function display.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by Sea-TechSystems

Icom and Standard Horizon are Radio manufacturers first.. "Other" Radios that can be updated by the MFD would be radios made by the same manufacturer as the MFD. So for example, if you have an all B&G System, or all Raymarine system you may be able to upgrade the radio from the MFD, but it's extremely unlikely that you could upgrade a B&G Radio from a Raymarine MFD or vice-versa. Since Icom doesn't make their own MFD, there is no way to do it.

B&G V50 radio can be updated via the MFD, but the wireless mic can't.. Only a dealer can update that. So it's not all roses over there either.

That said, I would love for it to be easy to keep marine electronics in general updated. It's heading that way, I suspect in time we will see a whole new series of radios that are software based, which will likely change the game.

It sure would be nice if Icom would make the update files generally available, or available on request. I have the tools to update, and have done it before in an attempt to correct bugs. But as you said, Icom generally will not make the update files available to anyone other than a dealer. So to update requires a remove and replace of the VHF, shipping two ways to a dealer, payment for the update service, and no radio for at least a week best case, and more likely a couple of weeks. It's really annoying.