Why do we still use cigarette-lighter adapters?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I would like to point out that one of the USB ports that I put a picture of on here has USB Qualcomm 3.0 QC charging. Through a USB-A connector.

It was not BlueSea, however. This doesn’t appear to be Blue Sea’s area of expertise.

Yes, even PD can be done through an USB type A. I simply don’t know another name for the ones that only support 5V 2’ish Amps. Not even now I try really hard… “pre-QC/PD USB” ?

[sailingharry]

I haven't played with any "tough" USB-C cables, but I have ample experience with bargain USB-C cables for my Android phone. They are quite suitable for the limited physical abuse that they give, and they handle the ~10-20W that my phone can draw.


I am concerned about how they measure up in more severe situations. The plug is small, and the wire is small.


I have several plug in 12V devices. I have a 150W inverter (much lower standby power than the big MultiPlus, primarily used to run our Beta fish tank heater), a air compressor (makes enough air to Hooka for servicing the boat, just used it yesterday to change my prop anode), a super fancy dinghy inflator, and a spotlight (yet to use it -- I have a battery powered one now). They use a mix of cigarette lighter, funky 4-pin (2+, 2-) plugs, and alligator clips. I suspect none of them in their current incarnation are suitable for USB, since none have the technology (but a smart adapter could conceivably be built that goes from a smart USB to a 12V plug). Future versions of these all could.


So, some of these are rugged devices. Not "plug it in on the counter and leave it" kind of things. If I up my budget from "cheapest Amazon sells" (quite acceptable for my current use), how well do they tolerate the device getting jerked, tripping on the cable, turning around and yanking the cord, etc? I have had at least one laptop where when it was retired only one USB port was still physically intact, and I've had many USB cords crack and tear at the plug. Cigarette lighters, while incredibly crappy, are undeniably durable. Other physical 12V plugs are even more so. But, I've cut off and replaced more than one cigarette lighter plug cord in my life -- does a damaged USB cord, or the plug on the device if it's a plug in, destroy the device? My last Pixel phone was scrapped because the USB-C plug on the device was corroded/damaged (too small to actually see what the issue was) and it would no longer charge (fortunately, I kept it going for a while on the wireless charge).


So, all that -- two questions:
* Are there "rugged" high power USB-C plugs that run on 12V supplies, that would be suitable for powering more "active" types of devices? Presumably they would be built to the same form factor as a cigarette plug, and could be easily retrofitted.

* Are there USB-C adapters that convert high power/voltage USB-C plugs to 12V output? Ideally, a small circuit that could be attached to or embedded inside an existing device, although a USB-C to 12V cord (with a cigarette lighter socket on the end??? LOL) would be the ultimate in supporting all legacy devices while only requiring one plug type installed on the boat.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

I haven't played with any "tough" USB-C cables, but I have ample experience with bargain USB-C cables for my Android phone. They are quite suitable for the limited physical abuse that they give, and they handle the ~10-20W that my phone can draw.


I am concerned about how they measure up in more severe situations. The plug is small, and the wire is small.


I have several plug in 12V devices. I have a 150W inverter (much lower standby power than the big MultiPlus, primarily used to run our Beta fish tank heater), a air compressor (makes enough air to Hooka for servicing the boat, just used it yesterday to change my prop anode), a super fancy dinghy inflator, and a spotlight (yet to use it -- I have a battery powered one now). They use a mix of cigarette lighter, funky 4-pin (2+, 2-) plugs, and alligator clips. I suspect none of them in their current incarnation are suitable for USB, since none have the technology (but a smart adapter could conceivably be built that goes from a smart USB to a 12V plug). Future versions of these all could.


So, some of these are rugged devices. Not "plug it in on the counter and leave it" kind of things. If I up my budget from "cheapest Amazon sells" (quite acceptable for my current use), how well do they tolerate the device getting jerked, tripping on the cable, turning around and yanking the cord, etc? I have had at least one laptop where when it was retired only one USB port was still physically intact, and I've had many USB cords crack and tear at the plug. Cigarette lighters, while incredibly crappy, are undeniably durable. Other physical 12V plugs are even more so. But, I've cut off and replaced more than one cigarette lighter plug cord in my life -- does a damaged USB cord, or the plug on the device if it's a plug in, destroy the device? My last Pixel phone was scrapped because the USB-C plug on the device was corroded/damaged (too small to actually see what the issue was) and it would no longer charge (fortunately, I kept it going for a while on the wireless charge).


So, all that -- two questions:
* Are there "rugged" high power USB-C plugs that run on 12V supplies, that would be suitable for powering more "active" types of devices? Presumably they would be built to the same form factor as a cigarette plug, and could be easily retrofitted.

* Are there USB-C adapters that convert high power/voltage USB-C plugs to 12V output? Ideally, a small circuit that could be attached to or embedded inside an existing device, although a USB-C to 12V cord (with a cigarette lighter socket on the end??? LOL) would be the ultimate in supporting all legacy devices while only requiring one plug type installed on the boat.

I posted my laptop adapter and cable earlier…. big diameter cable, no problems.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by jr_spyder

I haven’t seen anyone mention this yet but I’ve always been curious (or worried) that a USB outlet, when powered but not in use, creates a small parasitic load on the batteries all the time.

A lot of them now come with a power switch right on the face of the outlet. This not only avoids the parasitic load, but also the annoying blue (usually) light.

[mcarthur]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The “clunky and unreliable connection” issue has been dealt with by BlueSea Systems. Their outlets are solid and even support twist to lock plugs.

It has nickel plated copper for all conducting parts and supports 15A. It is only rated for 12V but I tested at 24V and it passed with flying colors. There was no heating at any contact anywhere. Only the USB adapter itself heats up, but it is housed in a machined aluminium plug with very good heatsink function.

Hmm, so 24V with the BlueSea may be ok, and that would give extra oomph using the USB power protocols. I'd have to run a little 12-24V boost converter behind though - have you checked any of them?

I did find it hard to find decent 24V rated sockets compared to the 12V...

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by mcarthur

Hmm, so 24V with the BlueSea may be ok, and that would give extra oomph using the USB power protocols. I'd have to run a little 12-24V boost converter behind though - have you checked any of them?

I did find it hard to find decent 24V rated sockets compared to the 12V...

I have 24V house batteries so no converter needed. You can simply use a step up converter for this. Here’s a small 240W one: https://www.amazon.com/YAXIGE-Conver.../dp/B09YY8387Y
All of these are good.

[Jammer]

CoolGear has your 12v to USB-C-PD needs covered. I added one of their devices to my boat last year, and had one on a previous boat. They are reliable and run, well, cool.


https://www.coolgear.com/product-cat...usb-c-chargers

[Jammer]

Here is the installation on my old Hunter 26. Also note the powerpole connection (near the bottom):

[s/v Jedi]

You need to feed well over 24V (25-26V minimum) to get the higher power PD modes.

[Jammer]

I would caution that USB-C connectors and cables are not durable over the long haul particularly in wet or dusty environments.



I use Anderson Powerpole connectors as a general replacement for cig lighter outlets and in other places where a 12v power connector is useful (connecting pumps, for example, to make inevitable removal for replacement, cleaning, or overhaul easier). Powerwerx.com has a nicely set up, informative website that offers them for sale in reasonable prices, quantities, and kits, and that offers a good, inexpensive crimp tool. The connectors are also available from major electronics suppliers like DigiKey.


I use the round-hole mounts as a drop-in replacement for cig lighters.

[Jammer]

The Anderson Powerpole lineup also includes higher current connectors. I find the SB50 series to be ideal for trolling motors and small (dinghy-sized) electric start outboard motors.

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You need to feed well over 24V (25-26V minimum) to get the higher power PD modes.

A power converter would need to output as much as 48V to match the highest level outputs in the US PD spec.

But that says nothing about it's input. It's common for these devices to boost voltage.

That said, while USB PD can deliver 240W, 5A at 48V, to do so would require 240W input, which is 20A at 12V, or 10A at 24V.

I've been planning around with these, on my desktop, and using a 65W 24V to USB PD converter I have been able to power everything except my Intel NUC. Even my laptop will charge off of USB PD.

For the NUC I'll be using a standalone 24V->19V converter.

[Jdege]

I'm planning on installing USB C outlets at convenient locations around the cabin for the assortment of small devices everyone depends upon these days.

My boat has electric outboards, and they use SB50 Anderson connectors. Replacing my bilge pump setup is something I plan to do, but it's far enough out that I've not considered the details, yet. Using plugs rather than hardwiring makes sense, and the smaller Anderson connectors might be a good choice.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I would caution that USB-C connectors and cables are not durable over the long haul particularly in wet or dusty environments.

THIS!


The original USB is not very good, but sort of OK. It does get corroded and fail.


My last Pixel would have been trashed when the USB-C failed, if not for the wireless charge option. It wasn't the cord, it was the phone plug.


My latest Pixel seems smarter. It shuts the port off if it "detects" water or dust. That may very well be smart enough and decisive enough to halt any electrically driven corrosion (note the tactical use of non-specific words -- I'm not going to misuse "galvanic corrosion" or "stray current" or such -- "electrically driven corrosion" should prevent flaming...)

[Island Time O25]

I still have some uses for 12v sockets. One is 12v kitchen gadgets - coffee maker, grinder, chopper, etc. The other is a CPAP machine. And a spot light of course. And a 12v air inflator for the dinghy. A USB port could not handle the needed amperage for any of these.

Of course I can always fire up my 2000W inverter but that seems to be very inefficient way to use it, especially at night. So the 12v sockets stay for the foreseeable future.