Why do we still use cigarette-lighter adapters?

[ChrisJHC]

I know these are around for historical reasons, however the world is moving towards USB A and C adapters.

In most cases there is a cigarette-lighter to USB adapter permanently mounted in the socket.

I regularly get corrosion in the socket that can lead to poor connections. I also assume that there is some loss by introducing an extra adapter.

Is there a reason we continue to use these adapters rather than directly wiring in a USB A and C socket?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by ChrisJHC

I know these are around for historical reasons, however the world is moving towards USB A and C adapters.

In most cases there is a cigarette-lighter to USB adapter permanently mounted in the socket.

I regularly get corrosion in the socket that can lead to poor connections. I also assume that there is some loss by introducing an extra adapter.

Is there a reason we continue to use these adapters rather than directly wiring in a USB A and C socket?

USB suffers the same corrosion problems. You can fix it once or twice with a small piece of Emory board (cardboard nail file)Thankfully a new cable fixes it usually if it’s beyond that.

I’m not sure why anyone uses those. I haven’t used one in 10 years. On boats or RVs. I hard wire in USB ports everywhere so no other adapter is needed.

[ChrisJHC]

Originally Posted by Chotu

USB suffers the same corrosion problems. You can fix it once or twice with a small piece of Emory board (cardboard nail file)Thankfully a new cable fixes it usually if it’s beyond that.

I’m not sure why anyone uses those. I haven’t used one in 10 years. On boats or RVs. I hard wire in USB ports everywhere so no other adapter is needed.

Sounds like I’ve got a little project ahead of me.
Luckily I have an electrician in the family (not that it needs an electrician but might as well use him).

[Chotu]

Well worth the effort in my opinion. Having to find adapters and things like that is annoying. Probably takes less time to hardwire one in also. Ha ha if you add up all of the time you will be looking for adapters.

Here’s the one I’m on right now providing the power to send this message which ultimately comes from solar. I just took a picture of it. This is in the RV.

[CaptTom]

I've got wired-in USB outlets everywhere on the boat. I can see three four from where I'm sitting in the saloon right now.

But I also have some "old style" cigarette lighter outlets. Certainly not used as much these days, but there is still some old hardware which uses them. Spotlights come to mind. These days even laptops use (PD) USB connections for power, so I imagine you could get by without the old outlets.

One thing to consider is that the old outlets were designed for very high currents (think, heating up the coil in an actual cigarette lighter.) Of course not all the outlets you buy for a boat or RV could handle that. You'd have to look at the Amperage rating.

For truly high Amperage you need to go way back to an even older standard for 12VDC power outlets. Those old round, two-prong outlets. I had to install one on my last boat for a safety light full of halogen bulbs. I couldn't find a cigarette lighter socket or plug which could handle the current.

[HeinSdL]

Clinging on to the good old days

[Mickeyrouse]

If “why” is the question, it’s the massive weight of the auto after-market. The boating industry, barely gnat-sized in comparison, simply used what was on the shelf for connectors for accessories. And, as already mentioned, the load-carrying capacity is much greater. Until the boating industry settles on some other type of the literally thousands of connector options already available, for things like spotlights, 12 v. Chargers, pumps etc. that require significantly greater current loads than an iphone charger needs, the “cigarette lighter” with its corroded contacts will afflict us for some time yet.
In the meantime, apply a thin film of dielectric grease (Autozone, O’Reilly’s) to the inside of the female connector to stave off corrosion.

[capt jgw]

Originally Posted by Mickeyrouse

If “why” is the question, it’s the massive weight of the auto after-market. The boating industry, barely gnat-sized in comparison, simply used what was on the shelf for connectors for accessories. And, as already mentioned, the load-carrying capacity is much greater. Until the boating industry settles on some other type of the literally thousands of connector options already available, for things like spotlights, 12 v. Chargers, pumps etc. that require significantly greater current loads than an iphone charger needs, the “cigarette lighter” with its corroded contacts will afflict us for some time yet.
In the meantime, apply a thin film of dielectric grease (Autozone, O’Reilly’s) to the inside of the female connector to stave off corrosion.

The change is coming, they haven't put actual cigarette lighters or ashtrays in most cars for like 20 years now. "Power ports" yes, but they're plastic and would melt or catch fire if you plugged in an actual lighter. My 2016 Chrysler has a power port and a 1 port USB outlet from the factory. The USB is also connected to the stereo so I can play music off a thumb drive.

[s/v Jedi]

I have done extensive testing and there are no good USB outlets with modern features like PD, USB-C etc.

The outcome of my tests was that you need the expensive, original Blue Sea Systems cigarette lighter outlet and specific adapters inserted into it that have been proven to work by actual testing. I tested 8 different ones all claiming the same thing but only one lived up to the claims.

All the look-alike outlets are cheap wastes of money; they are -not- the same as the BlueSea outlet (I ordered each and every one to test and returned them all)

Note that for USB-C power to laptops etc. you need the high power modes and for this to work you must feed the outlet/adapter with 24V DC.

The BlueSea USB outlet is no good either (obsolete tech)

Here the links to what actually works:

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst.../dp/B001U4ZZPK

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RHSD9WM

This powers even my Macbook Pro with the big gaming graphics adapter.

[Statistical]

I have wired in usb sockets directly. I have one 12V outlet at the nav station just in case but haven't used it for anything in a year. I used these. I considered buying some ultra expensive "marine" ones but I figure corrosion will get them anyways these are cheap. The power cables that came with just went right into the trash where they belong but I have plenty of spare quality boat cable.

https://www.amazon.com/83W-12V-Outle...dp/B0B1DHNLDS/

65W on the usb-c port is good enough even to slowly charge my laptop. 90W or 100W would be ideal but haven't found any that don't cost a fortune.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I have done extensive testing and there are no good USB outlets with modern features like PD, USB-C etc.

The outcome of my tests was that you need the expensive, original Blue Sea Systems cigarette lighter outlet and specific adapters inserted into it that have been proven to work by actual testing. I tested 8 different ones all claiming the same thing but only one lived up to the claims.

All the look-alike outlets are cheap wastes of money; they are -not- the same as the BlueSea outlet (I ordered each and every one to test and returned them all)

Note that for USB-C power to laptops etc. you need the high power modes and for this to work you must feed the outlet/adapter with 24V DC.

The BlueSea USB outlet is no good either (obsolete tech)

Here the links to what actually works:

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst.../dp/B001U4ZZPK

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RHSD9WM

This powers even my Macbook Pro with the big gaming graphics adapter.

Not quite. You don’t have to go through all of that mess with cigarette lighter adapters. Just hardwire it.

Mine are hardwired and they keep up with my MacBook Pro no problem.

People just have to look at the power output available on the various models. Most don’t cut it, but some do.

[s/v Jedi]

I forgot to mention: to test if you are actually fast charging or which USB charge mode you are actually in, you can use this monitor. I used it for all my testing; it’s cheap and effective:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JYVPLLJ

There’s a thread where I posted all this incl. charge rates etc. I’m not sure if I posted it on CF or our FB page, maybe both.

[CaptTom]

How - and what - to test is a good question.

Personally, I just go by the specs, and what my devices say ("turbo" or "fast" charging, or whatever.)

I've had good luck with wired outlets (same diameter as the old-style cigarette lighter outlets) with several different iterations of USB standards, up to and including PD.

I have used a meter like Jedi linked, although an older USB connection only. That'll tell you how much current the device is pulling, but not why it isn't pulling its maximum capacity. It could be the device doesn't need it, or it could be the meter itself is interfering with the handshake between the device and the port.

These outlets are cheap enough. If they power the devices I need them to, great. If they corrode or (more likely) go obsolete, it's easy enough to replace them. I do go for overkill on the wire size feeding them though.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

How - and what - to test is a good question.

Personally, I just go by the specs, and what my devices say ("turbo" or "fast" charging, or whatever.)

I've had good luck with wired outlets (same diameter as the old-style cigarette lighter outlets) with several different iterations of USB standards, up to and including PD.

I have used a meter like Jedi linked, although an older USB connection only. That'll tell you how much current the device is pulling, but not why it isn't pulling its maximum capacity. It could be the device doesn't need it, or it could be the meter itself is interfering with the handshake between the device and the port.

These outlets are cheap enough. If they power the devices I need them to, great. If they corrode or (more likely) go obsolete, it's easy enough to replace them. I do go for overkill on the wire size feeding them though.

Modern USB technology is very different from the good old 5V USB. The devices now talk to each other and negotiate for a specific, standardized mode. Let’s say they agree on a 20V fast charge mode. Now you phone may report it is fast charging but you only get a clue about the rate by noticing if it takes the same amount of time or much longer/shorter compared to an AC adapter.

The test device doesn’t just show the negotiated mode, but also the actual power transfer as well as total energy transferred over time, incl. graphs etc.

I needed all that data in order to determine if the adapter actually did what it promised and like I wrote, only one out of eight did. This was a while back, but I ordered every one that I could buy on Amazon Prime with free returns. I bet there are many more now and maybe many will perform as claimed, but the one I linked above I know this for sure so that is why I mentioned it

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by ChrisJHC

Is there a reason we continue to use these adapters rather than directly wiring in a USB A and C socket?

The old-school cigarette lighter socket is good for 10+A @ 12v, depending how the circuit is wired and protected. USB won't do that. Yes, a new standard for 12v accessory sockets is overdue.

But I love USB too. I used a DC-DC switching converter module (12v to 5v) to feed 4 USB sockets distributed around the boat. Not fast-charging, but I've never needed that aboard. Very handy for charging personal devices, handheld GPS, little fans, LED reading lights etc.