Why don't production boats have external alternator regulation

[pbmaise]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Why are thousands of expensive new homes built in Florida wit zero insulation in the walls? Because most customers don’t know or understand the difference or need.

Easy to modify your alternators to external regulation or take it to a rebuilder shop. YouTube and or the manufacture’s site will reveal all.

There is a lot that should be on a production boat that is not. Most boats are dock queens connected to shore power every night. The right stuff makes the system too complicated for their owners. Either look for a blue water boat or fix it yourself.

I respectfully disagree. It is not easy to modify an alternator when you are floating in the water far from an internet connection. Further, the little voice in your head keeps shouting at you...if you do it wrong you will ruin the only spare alternator you have.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by pbmaise

I respectfully disagree. It is not easy to modify an alternator when you are floating in the water far from an internet connection. Further, the little voice in your head keeps shouting at you...if you do it wrong you will ruin the only spare alternator you have.

If you are carrying a spare wouldn't the obvious solution be to modify it (or pay someone to modify it) ahead of time. Then it is ready to go as a drop in replacement.

Yes probably not smart to try to modify the alternator in the middle of the ocean after the primary alternator has failed.

[Shaneesprit]

Originally Posted by DougMc

Consider our 2017 Bene Oceanis 45. 125 Amp Valeo alternator and 420Ah of sealed lead acid batteries.

I am seriously considering installing either Balmar or Wakespeed external regulation, and it occurred to me to wonder why it's not already installed from the factory? Is it:

1) It's not an obvious selling point for the first owner, so Beneteau saves a few bucks.

2) These boats spend a lot of time on shore power, so the benefits are marginal and, again, Beneteau saves some cost.

3) The Valeo internal regulation and the cabling to the batteries isn't too bad, so the benefits are marginal.


I'm a slightly obsessive engineer so my urges are to install a Wakespeed WS500, and then spend my declining years writing a program to monitor its behavior over WiFi/Bluetooth via an ESP32.

But, seriously, I'm curious. Is there a good reason why external regulation seems to be the domain of a few small companies?

Our boat still has to earn her living in charter, with us spending about 6 weeks on board, so there is some benefit to keeping things simple, but I'm adding solar with the goal of having the diesel used less for battery charging and it seems crazy to not get the most efficiency out of whatever diesel charging is required.

In my situation is it worth the cost/effort/complexity to add external regulation? I'd do the work myself and monitor for 4 or 5 weeks before the boat goes back to the charter operator.

regards
Doug

A rather simple question, instead of asking why don’t they install, you to ask why would they install.
The answer is simple, they buy in the motor / Engine and install it done.
If they were to change the regulator then first they have to deal with the design and then the warranty on the engine becomes complex and then they have to purchase and storage of comments. install and then they have to test.
So you have fit and done Vs a cost in design documentation labour, all means time and money. In a production line of any type repetition equals less cost less problems.

[Ike]

Originally Posted by DougMc

Consider our 2017 Bene Oceanis 45. 125 Amp Valeo alternator and 420Ah of sealed lead acid batteries.

But, seriously, I'm curious. Is there a good reason why external regulation seems to be the domain of a few small companies?

regards
Doug

The answer is simplicity. It is simpler and less costly to install a self regulating alternator. That eliminates the cost of the regulator and the overcurrent protection. The following is from ABYC E-11 AC and DC Electrical Systems.

11.10.1.1.1 Overcurrent Protection Device Location - Ungrounded conductors shall be provided with overcurrent protection device(s) within a distance of seven inches (178 mm) of the point at which the conductor is connected to the source of power measured along the conductor (see FIGURE 8). EXCEPTIONS: .

4. Overcurrent protection is not required in conductors from self-limiting alternators with integral regulators if the conductor is less than 40 in (102 cm), is connected to a source of power other than the battery, and is contained throughout its entire distance in a sheath or enclosure.
5. Overcurrent protection is not required at an alternator if the ampacity of the conductor is equal to or greater than the rated output of the alternator.

There is a similar provision in the USCG Electrical regulations. And even though I haven't looked it up , if I recall correctly, the ISO Electrical standard ISO 10133 says something similar.

Plus that most boat manufacturers don't want customers altering the installed system. Most average boat owners won't even know whether their alternator is self regulated or not. On the other hand, Cruisers are usually very self reliant, knowledgeable, and capable of alternating (pun intended) the system to make it more efficient.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by DougMc

Consider our 2017 Bene Oceanis 45. 125 Amp Valeo alternator and 420Ah of sealed lead acid batteries.

I am seriously considering installing either Balmar or Wakespeed external regulation, and it occurred to me to wonder why it's not already installed from the factory? Is it:

1) It's not an obvious selling point for the first owner, so Beneteau saves a few bucks.

2) These boats spend a lot of time on shore power, so the benefits are marginal and, again, Beneteau saves some cost.

3) The Valeo internal regulation and the cabling to the batteries isn't too bad, so the benefits are marginal.


I'm a slightly obsessive engineer so my urges are to install a Wakespeed WS500, and then spend my declining years writing a program to monitor its behavior over WiFi/Bluetooth via an ESP32.

But, seriously, I'm curious. Is there a good reason why external regulation seems to be the domain of a few small companies?

Our boat still has to earn her living in charter, with us spending about 6 weeks on board, so there is some benefit to keeping things simple, but I'm adding solar with the goal of having the diesel used less for battery charging and it seems crazy to not get the most efficiency out of whatever diesel charging is required.

In my situation is it worth the cost/effort/complexity to add external regulation? I'd do the work myself and monitor for 4 or 5 weeks before the boat goes back to the charter operator.

regards
Doug

Simple answer profit. Beneteau is private equity owned and they calculate with the 4th digit after the comma, means 1/100 cent. Your 500 bucks wakespeed regulator is a welcomed cost cutter as it needs to be installed on the engine so 500+500 labour+production complexity. They take what comes standard with the engine.
Same engine, standard engine rarely keep up with some stronger breeze and optional engine hardly covers heavier weather. Why costs to offer your boat for a lower market price. So you are already underpowered even with the optional engine upgrade and then you wanna use an external regulator which gets mor current out the alternator...but more current means a higher load on the engine taking away more power....

To optimize your charter queen i suggest to use a sterling battery to battery charger, that will utilize what you have and otimize the charging of house.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Simple answer profit. Beneteau is private equity owned and they calculate with the 4th digit after the comma, means 1/100 cent. Your 500 bucks wakespeed regulator is a welcomed cost cutter as it needs to be installed on the engine so 500+500 labour+production complexity. They take what comes standard with the engine.
Same engine, standard engine rarely keep up with some stronger breeze and optional engine hardly covers heavier weather. Why costs to offer your boat for a lower market price. So you are already underpowered even with the optional engine upgrade and then you wanna use an external regulator which gets mor current out the alternator...but more current means a higher load on the engine taking away more power....

To optimize your charter queen i suggest to use a sterling battery to battery charger, that will utilize what you have and otimize the charging of house.

While I agree with cost cutting part one advantage of wakespeed is custom load map. You can configure it to dial back the field strength at high rpm. If you are redlining the engine likely you need every HP possible and so the altnerator can be essentially down to near zero output so every HP possible is going to the propshaft.

[hlev00]

In 2017 I replaced two fading 4D 12V with four 6V on my Beneteau 423. If LiFePO4 has been more mature I would have gone that way. I added Balmar 100A plus their regulator to 423 in 2018 along with 380W of solar prior to our first winter to the Bahamas. All were great upgrades.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Statistical

While I agree with cost cutting part one advantage of wakespeed is custom load map. You can configure it to dial back the field strength at high rpm. If you are redlining the engine likely you need every HP possible and so the altnerator can be essentially down to near zero output so every HP possible is going to the propshaft.

They don't care...you will never see a wakespeed in a mass production boat. Premium and perxormance yes as upgrade with LFP from factory.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by hlev00

In 2017 I replaced two fading 4D 12V with four 6V on my Beneteau 423. If LiFePO4 has been more mature I would have gone that way. I added Balmar 100A plus their regulator to 423 in 2018 along with 380W of solar prior to our first winter to the Bahamas. All were great upgrades.

Your loss, Lifepo4 is more then mature and if you have a balmar you have all you need for a proper LFP system. But you spend a lot of money and got all disantvantages with your 4 FLA trojans.
LFP is a gamechanger...nobody i know won't ever go back after they have LFP.