Windows vs Linux vs MacOS vs Others

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by chris95040

You made a baseless claim, I called it nonsense. I think the actual information density of our posts are quite similar.

But (being based in reality) my claim will stand up to scrutiny to anyone who tries to install, say, Ubuntu 16 on an old beater machine and sees, to their amazement, that its snappy and responsive.

I have made a statement based on my own experience. You called it nonsense based on yours. Calling someones' experience a 'baseless claim' is a baseless claim. Or have I missed anything in the thick book of eristic reasoning?

Happy reading:

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comme...ve_these_days/

Maybe you are setting up a clean install. Then be ready to do extra time finding drivers, installing patches and the apps that you actually want to deploy. Or do you set up a clean install and you are happy with that? Well, then out of the box Windows is a snappy tool too - even on 32Gb system with 1Gb RAM.

But we expect something else from our devices than being able to run just the OS.

Maybe you are a day to day Linux user and so you overcame the hurdles I have encountered. Good on you. Just do not hope for many people around you to have comparable skills. In fact, if you look around, few people are fluent with installing systems, finding drivers, analyzing the challenges, finding support and troubleshooting the IT stuff.

That's exactly why there are so many MacOS, Windows and Android users while Linux is a marginal system (laptops, convertibles, tablets) after so many years of being the 'great', free choice. Apparently people are stupid and keep on choosing the lesser tool.

Few cruising boats have servers onboard and few people are software geeks. That's that.

barnakiel

[mrm]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Fiat is virtually to Ferrari what Linux is to Unix. Now few will agree Fiat is a great car.

This argument is as far detached from reality as it goes and borders on being trollish.

Historical background: the Unix operating system had its early days back in 1969. Since then it was evolving as new design ideas were introduced and some older dropped. Often with more than one concurrent development path (System V and BSD being prime examples of that). The best ideas from those decades of evolution that withstood the test of time were incorporated into the POSIX system interface for Unix specification.

Linux, since early days of its development, is developed as a POSIX compliant system, so one might say that if Unix is a crown of operating systems, Linux is a jewel in it.

MS Windows twisted maze of hodgepodge APIs, some remembering days when it was not much more than a graphical UI over DOS does not even remotely compare, although I must admit that, given enough time, Microsoft will redevelop Unix - they are certainly headed in that direction since NT/XP days

I used Unix (Solaris) when I worked in banking. It WAS awesome. But it did basically one thing only.

Do not confuse the OS and the application. It is typical for critical services/applications to run on dedicated machines (for security and maintenance reasons) but it does not imply the Solaris was not capable of multitasking.

It is easier to get great in just one type of activity.

Yes - the DOS/early Windows did just that. Although 'great' would be an overstatement in this case. Anybody remembers cooperative multitasking model in Windows where crash in one application crashed the whole environment?

It is a bit more challenging to manage drivers, GUIs, databases, encrypting, comms all at once.

True - it requires an Operating System designed as multitasking from the start. Unix. Although, to be fair, managing databases is best done with separate database engines in application layer and is not a part of modern day OS's. The only OS I know of which had a database as one of internally handled file types was VAX/VMS, but it is mostly history now.

To answer the OP. Test for yourself and use what works for you. Disappointed with MS products I started playing with Linux kernel since version 0.97 and moved entirely to Linux around 1994/1995. Linux works for me (and does it very well). It may or may not work for you.

Perhaps look into Mac OS? It has BSD Unix under the hood (so many years of testing of what works and what doesn't) and its user interface comes from people with many years of excellence in UI design.

[capt-couillon]

Why I prefer Linux....

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I have made a statement based on my own experience. You called it nonsense based on yours. Calling someones' experience a 'baseless claim' is a baseless claim. Or have I missed anything in the thick book of eristic reasoning?

Happy reading:

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comme...ve_these_days/

Maybe you are setting up a clean install. Then be ready to do extra time finding drivers, installing patches and the apps that you actually want to deploy. Or do you set up a clean install and you are happy with that? Well, then out of the box Windows is a snappy tool too - even on 32Gb system with 1Gb RAM.

But we expect something else from our devices than being able to run just the OS.

Maybe you are a day to day Linux user and so you overcame the hurdles I have encountered. Good on you. Just do not hope for many people around you to have comparable skills. In fact, if you look around, few people are fluent with installing systems, finding drivers, analyzing the challenges, finding support and troubleshooting the IT stuff.

That's exactly why there are so many MacOS, Windows and Android users while Linux is a marginal system (laptops, convertibles, tablets) after so many years of being the 'great', free choice. Apparently people are stupid and keep on choosing the lesser tool.

Few cruising boats have servers onboard and few people are software geeks. That's that.

barnakiel

Now you are blathering on about fitness for a purpose, a fight I'm not involved in.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by capt-couillon

Why I prefer Linux....

LOL I usually don't care for geek humor that folks not in the know don't "get", but that one is pretty good.

[sy_gilana]

sudo open beer

TRY LINUX!

Ok so I am streaming BBC, have two tabs open in Firefox, Thunderbird and lightning running, as well as all the other normal background things, like updates, and firewall etc.

System monitor tells this:

6 processes running.
34 processes sleeping
CPU use 7%

My install is NOT a resource hog.

Go to grc.com and do some security tests, my machine does not exist on the internet, but I'm here!

[250224]

Originally Posted by chris95040

Now you are blathering on about fitness for a purpose, a fight I'm not involved in.

BLATHERING??? Totally unnecessary, isn't it?

You Linux apostels do no good. OP used Windows before and it's quite a stretch to go Linux (incl. Ubuntu). If you do not have a real urge for Linux one will suffer. Software will be missing or look old-fashioned, see e.g. Navigatrix. From videos I saw, all professional sailors use Windows (and Maxsea?). Does MaxSea work on Linux? No, afaik.

Imho it's irresponsible to 'just recommend' Linux. Of course it's a better OS, however it comes with a huge (technical) cost and one has to make compromises with software (LibreOffice e.g. is by far not as good as office). Unless you are prepared to invest some time, it won't work. You won't be happy.

Imho 2:

1. use Windows (10). Either someting Surface-like if you want to spend the money or a cheap notebook. (You won't need it, but Win10 includes an up-to-date Linux (Ubuntu 16.04 - WSL/LXSS)). Due to Microsofts cloud focus, some time is needed to configure/disable annoying privacy issues. Boring, but can be done in one or two hours - still easier than learning a new OS.

2. use a Mac (my current choice). Less software/tools but more coherent OS, simpler UI

3. iff you want to invest in computing/learning/foss then use Linux (in principle my favorite but don't use it for sailing atm out of lazyness and lack of time (and unwillingness to compromise))

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by sy_gilana

(...)

Ok so I am

1) streaming BBC,
2) have two tabs open in Firefox,
3) Thunderbird and
4) lightning running, as well as all the other normal background things, like
5) updates, and
6) firewall
7) etc.

System monitor tells this:

6 processes running.
34 processes sleeping
CPU use 7%

(

Similar story on Win 10 is:

65 processes:
- 3 forward,
- 29 backstage,
- 32 asleep.

Processor footprint: 11% (but peaking to 27% as I type and use the pad).
Memory footprint: 41%

If you have an older Firefox, expect some fireworks at 50 and beyond (as I write this with 1 tab open, the Firefox is happily deploying 2 processes and it ads another one or two by its own discretion ...)

So we are at about the same load. What is your processor?

b.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by chris95040

Now you are blathering on about fitness for a purpose, a fight I'm not involved in.

No, you are not involved. Your style is to label something as nonsense and avoid arguments.

Cheers,
b.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by mrm

This argument is as far detached from reality as it goes and borders on being trollish.

(...)

Yes. I was not 100% serious saying that. We both know the opposite is (or was) the case - Fiat made Ferraris (till 2015 I think). I did not mean to be trollish, much as I tried to remain provocative.

Thank you for expanding on the matter, correcting my abuses and educating me in the process too!

barnakiel

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by blu3534

BLATHERING??? Totally unnecessary, isn't it?

You Linux apostels do no good. OP used Windows before and it's quite a stretch to go Linux (incl. Ubuntu). If you do not have a real urge for Linux one will suffer. Software will be missing or look old-fashioned, see e.g. Navigatrix. From videos I saw, all professional sailors use Windows (and Maxsea?). Does MaxSea work on Linux? No, afaik.

Imho it's irresponsible to 'just recommend' Linux. Of course it's a better OS, however it comes with a huge (technical) cost and one has to make compromises with software (LibreOffice e.g. is by far not as good as office). Unless you are prepared to invest some time, it won't work. You won't be happy.

Imho 2:

1. use Windows (10). Either someting Surface-like if you want to spend the money or a cheap notebook. (You won't need it, but Win10 includes an up-to-date Linux (Ubuntu 16.04 - WSL/LXSS)). Due to Microsofts cloud focus, some time is needed to configure/disable annoying privacy issues. Boring, but can be done in one or two hours - still easier than learning a new OS.

2. use a Mac (my current choice). Less software/tools but more coherent OS, simpler UI

3. iff you want to invest in computing/learning/foss then use Linux (in principle my favorite but don't use it for sailing atm out of lazyness and lack of time (and unwillingness to compromise))

I wasn't talking about any of this stuff, so if this is meant as a reply to me, I'd say this is also blathering.

For the record, as someone who at various times ends up stuck writing device drivers, I think linux has really lost it's way over the past 15 years. The "Keep it simple, stupid" philosophy is clearly not understood by many in the kernel development community, and apparently reviled by those in it's desktop application community. Gratuitous complexity is the enemy of stability and Linux certainly has it's share of that now. But Windows is just brutal, what a case study in complexity that bears no resemblance to the task at hand.

[250224]

Originally Posted by chris95040

I wasn't talking about any of this stuff, so if this is meant as a reply to me, I'd say this is also blathering.

Yes it was as a (partly) reply to you. - Thus only partly blathering?

[barnakiel]

I am not sure how much we agree but I do believe we somewhat agree that:

- Linux is a nice system and can be used onboard for many/most uses,
- it is not a great choice for someone who has grown up using MacOS or Windows.

And the rest depends on how much one wants to educate themselves in operating systems, kernels, terminal windows, file extensions, file format challenges, etc. etc.

There is a fine TED talk on development. The guy claims we can only develop when we are set in a complexity environment. So perhaps if you want to grow as an IT expert, get Linux and play with it. The complexity is there.

I am glad the irritation level is still one notch lower than in the anchors thread ;-)

beep beep beep, press Alt-Ctrl-Del
barnakiel

[Invictus69]

Originally Posted by capt-couillon

Have been running Navigatrix as a sole operating system for several years with no regrets... Custom distro based on a stripped down Debian/Ubuntu core, it will run side by side with Window$ if needs be. Built by cruisers for cruisers it contains a ton of pre-configured software including OpenCpn, Zygrib, etc. Good support through user forum. Free and runs on old laptops fine (Thinkpad t-40 t-60).

Just sayin...

I have to admit, never heard about this before but it looks like it has everything a cruising sailor needs. I am yet to test it but compliments and well done to the author(s) for the effort.

Anybody else with a practical experience with Navigatrix?

Thanks for sharing!

[sy_gilana]

Intel® Pentium(R) CPU P6100 @ 2.00GHz × 2

Lenovo G560 2012 model. 6 gig ram and 250gig SDD.