Wireless vs Wired B&G kits.

[GILow]

So, I’m looking at fitting B&G instruments to the new boat, which currently has absolutely no instruments at all.

Now I’ve run into a question about which package to buy.

It seems B&G are packaging two bundles, one with wired sensors and one with wireless sensors.

But when you look at what they mean by wireless it seems pretty silly. According to the manual the wireless wind sensor (ws320) still needs a cable run up the mast, the sensor needs to be within half a meter of the Bluetooth base station. What on earth is the point? AND the wind sensor then needs a battery, which is at least rechargeable, but there’s another point of failure.

As for the speed/depth/temp transducer, the wired kits comes with the dst800 while the wireless comes with the dst810. Again, both need a cable run to them, but the dst810 has Bluetooth, which I guess might be nice if you want to see some data directly on your iPad or phone, but I’m not sure there’s anything else gained.

So, what am I missing? What is the advantage of the wireless kit, particularly given the added complexity at the mast head.

Can anyone illuminate me?

[Ambler]

Hi Matt,
I have been using a Lowrance depth, Simrad radar and now a B&G Vulcan plotter which are all effectively the same company Navico so a simple plug and play. It is my understanding that any other sensor will play too via nmea 2000. The Raymarine AIS works well into the Navico stuff and I have purchased a nmea 0183 to nmea 2000 2 way converter so I expect my wind will input and my old Coursemaster will take directions from my B&G plotter too. For wind input I reckon you could look at a wireless Garmin or Tack tick or whatever with a good reputation that has a wireless sender at the mast top if their receiver has nmea2000 output. It is all part of the reason NMEA was collectively invented by all major companies so consumers could pick any brand they like and it will work with any other brand. For me so far so good with NMEA 0183 and 2000.
Wayne

[stevead]

My partner has a WS320 on her yacht.

There is NO cable up the mast. The WS320 wind sensor has a small battery & solar panel. The wind sensor interface is mounted inside the cabin and is connected to the NMEA 2000 backbone via a drop cable. It communicates wirelessly with the WS320 wind sensor using Bluetooth.

If you read the manual carefully, the only mention of the 0.5m distance is when performing the initial Bluetooth pairing between the interface and the sensor which you would normally do prior to going up the mast when installing the sensor.

The benefit of the WS320 is not having to pull a cable up the mast. In terms of points of failure between wireless & wired sensors, the former has a battery as a point of failure, the latter has a cable/connector/terminator as a point of failure. You could even argue that because the NMEA 2000 backbone is terminated at the wired wind sensor, any fault there could potentially bring down the entire NMEA 2000 network.

The DST810 (which is actually an Airmar product) is a NMEA 2000 triducer (depth, speed, temperature) and only uses Bluetooth for connecting to the Airmar CAST app. It still requires a NMEA 2000 connection to provide power and to communicate with displays & MFD's.

[Macdoug]

I have both the ws320 and the dst810 on my boat and can confirm that Stevead is correct.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by stevead

My partner has a WS320 on her yacht.



There is NO cable up the mast. The WS320 wind sensor has a small battery & solar panel. The wind sensor interface is mounted inside the cabin and is connected to the NMEA 2000 backbone via a drop cable. It communicates wirelessly with the WS320 wind sensor using Bluetooth.



If you read the manual carefully, the only mention of the 0.5m distance is when performing the initial Bluetooth pairing between the interface and the sensor which you would normally do prior to going up the mast when installing the sensor.



The benefit of the WS320 is not having to pull a cable up the mast. In terms of points of failure between wireless & wired sensors, the former has a battery as a point of failure, the latter has a cable/connector/terminator as a point of failure. You could even argue that because the NMEA 2000 backbone is terminated at the wired wind sensor, any fault there could potentially bring down the entire NMEA 2000 network.



The DST810 (which is actually an Airmar product) is a NMEA 2000 triducer (depth, speed, temperature) and only uses Bluetooth for connecting to the Airmar CAST app. It still requires a NMEA 2000 connection to provide power and to communicate with displays & MFD's.

Ah… this all starts to make sense now, thank you.

It serves me right for reading the manual at 4 in the morning.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Macdoug

I have both the ws320 and the dst810 on my boat and can confirm that Stevead is correct.

Thank you. I feel a bit silly now. [emoji4]

[GILow]

So, can either of you tell me the mast lengths you (or your partner) has.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Ambler

Hi Matt,
I have been using a Lowrance depth, Simrad radar and now a B&G Vulcan plotter which are all effectively the same company Navico so a simple plug and play. It is my understanding that any other sensor will play too via nmea 2000. The Raymarine AIS works well into the Navico stuff and I have purchased a nmea 0183 to nmea 2000 2 way converter so I expect my wind will input and my old Coursemaster will take directions from my B&G plotter too. For wind input I reckon you could look at a wireless Garmin or Tack tick or whatever with a good reputation that has a wireless sender at the mast top if their receiver has nmea2000 output. It is all part of the reason NMEA was collectively invented by all major companies so consumers could pick any brand they like and it will work with any other brand. For me so far so good with NMEA 0183 and 2000.
Wayne

This is very reassuring. My plan is to start with the B&G kit then see if I can get lucky with the secondhand radar or plotter etc.

If the stuff will talk to each other it will really help.

How are you finding the Vulcan plotter?

[Ambler]

Originally Posted by GILow

This is very reassuring. My plan is to start with the B&G kit then see if I can get lucky with the secondhand radar or plotter etc.

If the stuff will talk to each other it will really help.

How are you finding the Vulcan plotter?

Well so far, after installing on Ambler, it didn't talk to the Simrad halo 20 radar. So back it went under waranty and a new V 9" was sent to me. I will try again when I get back to Hobart.
It works really well at home!
I hear it works better at the chart table than the cockpit due to being a touch screen only device. Rain and spray I hear love to do random things to touch screens so a better option in the cockpit is a screen and button type gadget. It will mirror its screen via wifi to a tablet in the cockpit and it will also send all nav data via wifi to a computer running Ocpn. So its flexible enough for me.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Ambler

Well so far, after installing on Ambler, it didn't talk to the Simrad halo 20 radar. So back it went under waranty and a new V 9" was sent to me. I will try again when I get back to Hobart.
It works really well at home!
I hear it works better at the chart table than the cockpit due to being a touch screen only device. Rain and spray I hear love to do random things to touch screens so a better option in the cockpit is a screen and button type gadget. It will mirror its screen via wifi to a tablet in the cockpit and it will also send all nav data via wifi to a computer running Ocpn. So its flexible enough for me.

That touch screen rain thing is a bit of a worry. I’m building a deckhouse on the KP, so I may be able to keep it dry like I do with the C120 on the Swanson.

I’ll check in with you soon to see how it all worked out.

[Yellowjacket]

My 30 year old B&G system, Raymarine plotter, and radar were abandoning their utility. It was time to think NMEA 2000.

Discovering that essentially all newer DST sensors were made by Airmar and the same except for wiring package, I bought one with the most standard wiring option and installed it where the water speed indicator used to live. The through-hull needed to be enlarged from 1 7/8 to 2". The old depth sensor was left in place.

The NMEA backbone extends aft to a Vesper Marine XB-8000 Smart AIS. This unit has WIFI and broadcasts NMEA 2000 data to an iPad using the Vesper Marine App.

My old radar was displayed on a heavy CRT in the cabin not visible from the helm, and the antenna was on an arch on the transom right behind and above my head. Maybe not a health issue, but I thought it would be better higher on the mast. I couldn't pull or drop wire through my crowded mast openings, but Furuno makes a radar that also transmits WIFI, and an app to view radar on an iPad. I sacrificed an old deck light for power.

So, now I have three iPads at my fairly dry helm: A large screem iPad Pro running Navionics, an inexpensive iPad for displaying AIS / instruments (DST info, lat/long, heading/course, eventually engine info, though I do trust my old analogue for that), and the third for radar.

Back-up nav is a completely independent Open CPN on a computer in the cabin on a screen visible from the cockpit. I'll probably add another iPad below for the instrument info at the interior helm where it will be totally out of the weather.

This set up is satisfactory for me, in that I did not want to rewire my wonderful old boat. It's not perfect. Radar resolution is only just adequate. The Vesper app gets cranky if you change the app in use on "its" iPad, and its wifi is not the strongest. iPads like to hunt for the strongest signal, and this does sometimes require a reboot of the app. I may wire the Vesper XB-8000 to a wifi router, but this is complicated enough, for now.

While many do not trust wireless, I've had fewer issues in recent years than with wires. I've not figured out the wind instrument component yet, so I use the NMEA- standard wetted finger held into the wind.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Yellowjacket

My 30 year old B&G system, Raymarine plotter, and radar were abandoning their utility. It was time to think NMEA 2000.



Discovering that essentially all newer DST sensors were made by Airmar and the same except for wiring package, I bought one with the most standard wiring option and installed it where the water speed indicator used to live. The through-hull needed to be enlarged from 1 7/8 to 2". The old depth sensor was left in place.



The NMEA backbone extends aft to a Vesper Marine XB-8000 Smart AIS. This unit has WIFI and broadcasts NMEA 2000 data to an iPad using the Vesper Marine App.



My old radar was displayed on a heavy CRT in the cabin not visible from the helm, and the antenna was on an arch on the transom right behind and above my head. Maybe not a health issue, but I thought it would be better higher on the mast. I couldn't pull or drop wire through my crowded mast openings, but Furuno makes a radar that also transmits WIFI, and an app to view radar on an iPad. I sacrificed an old deck light for power.



So, now I have three iPads at my fairly dry helm: A large screem iPad Pro running Navionics, an inexpensive iPad for displaying AIS / instruments (DST info, lat/long, heading/course, eventually engine info, though I do trust my old analogue for that), and the third for radar.



Back-up nav is a completely independent Open CPN on a computer in the cabin on a screen visible from the cockpit. I'll probably add another iPad below for the instrument info at the interior helm where it will be totally out of the weather.



This set up is satisfactory for me, in that I did not want to rewire my wonderful old boat. It's not perfect. Radar resolution is only just adequate. The Vesper app gets cranky if you change the app in use on "its" iPad, and its wifi is not the strongest. iPads like to hunt for the strongest signal, and this does sometimes require a reboot of the app. I may wire the Vesper XB-8000 to a wifi router, but this is complicated enough, for now.



While many do not trust wireless, I've had fewer issues in recent years than with wires. I've not figured out the wind instrument component yet, so I use the NMEA- standard wetted finger held into the wind.

I love it. Got a pleasantly W Heath Robinson feel to all that.

[hlev00]

Ask how tall a mast they support. Early wireless instruments didn’t do well above 40’ as I understand.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by hlev00

Ask how tall a mast they support. Early wireless instruments didn’t do well above 40’ as I understand.

They claim 25 meters, which is a lot more than I need, but I take claims like that with some caution. Hence curious about the lengths of the masts of the two early respondents.

[hjohnson]

IMHO, always go wired.


It's not that hard to run a cable down the mast, and if you do so, you don't need to worry about batteries wearing out, RF wierdness, or whether a bird has pooped on the solar panel.


I've done installations on both my own E27 (35' mast or so) and on a Moody 46 (70' mast). Gravity is your friend; it wasn't hard to runt the cable down, once you had someone up at the top of the mast.