Brig-in-a-Box

[thesaltytar]

Okay.... Spinnakers (and their schooner friend... The gollywobbler) are the go-to downwind sail. But nobody really enjoys going dead down-wind, right?

Square riggers used to. They were designed for it. So I'm wondering if having a nice big square sail on the forward mast might be the way to make downwind legs more enjoyable. I realize modern hull form is much finer in the bows....

Lots of reasons why this won't be feasible most of the time or for casual use. I'm talking about a nice long passage when you don't mind taking extra time to set up a rig to make the most of it.

With modern materials it should be relatively easy to keep everything light weight. I'm thinking maybe a telescoping carbon fiber yard that can hoist up on a halyard (jib halyard or maybe the main halyard if you have a ketch) with a couple of control lines (say a port and starboard brace) or maybe omit the control lines and just use the sheets of the bottom two corners of the square sail. Less control but simpler.

Is this madness? Would you try one out?

[HankOnthewater]

Is it madness? Sailing in itself could be considered to be on the madness spectrum, rigging a square sail might add just a little .
The older Amel boats had a good system for downwind sailing without going to the trouble making a square rigged sail; see this link for all the details https://fetchinketch.net/2016/06/26/...d-sailing-rig/

[thesaltytar]

That's great info, thanks for sharing! The over sheeting exacerbating the rolling makes a lot of sense and explains some of the rolliness of my going wing-on-wing downwind; the shrouds catch the booms and by definition my two largest sails are in effect over sheeted.

[sailormed]

Lookup Twizzle double foresail. Has the same purpose, using 2 foresails for downwind sailing. In the 60’s a dutch sailer (retired airforce general) sailed solo round the world with a double foresail setup, coupled with a steering system on the helm. Simple and effective. He disappeared in the Torres strait south of New Guinea after a long stopover in New Zealand.

[TrentePieds]

I have often thot a square sail would be nice, but the manner in which a modern boat is stayed — quite, quite different from the staying of a "square rigger" — makes it impractical.

In a square rigger the lower shrouds were laid about the lower masts at its very top. The platform, there placed and called "the tops", spread the futtock shrouds as they led from "hounds", a little distance down from the tops on the lower mast, to the top of the topmast. And so on up several 'sticks".

The lower yards were at the height where the futtock shrouds crossed the main shrouds and where the angle the yard could be braced was therefore the greatest.

On a Marconi rig, the need to spread the topmast shroud already at the deck makes the possible bracing angle far too small to make the employment of a square sail worthwhile.

Cheers

TrentePieds

[MicHughV]

My 2c....

Most mono sailors are scared to death of a spinnaker pole, therefore, rarely, if ever set a 'chute", depriving themselves of a wonderful downwind sail, in fact, a spinnaker pole is a rare sight on most sailboats these days..

However, from experience, a spinnaker pole is an easy beast to understand and tame, and once you come to grips with it, setting, dousing or gybing the 'chute is generally relatively straightforward and you will be blessed with hours of pleasant downwind sailing.

[thesaltytar]

The problem with a lot of jib solutions is the unfortunate low aspect ratio of my rig coupled with having the shorter stick in the front. A fore topmast would solve this but I'm not sure I really want to go down that road.

Also excellent observation on how Marconi rigs are stayed. It makes complete sense that you lost almost all ability to brace, let alone bracing sharp.

I'm not against the idea of a Spinnaker pole at all. Question about that - do people ever fairlead their Spinnaker to a snatch block on the end of their boom? For a single mast boat this would probably hamper their use of the main but for a boat with two masts perhaps the smaller of the two could be sacrificed to really boom something out over the water?

[MicHughV]

My first boat was ketch rigged....

When flying the spinnaker I often hoisted a mizzen staysail, the tack of which was attached by means of a line to a stanchion base, and the clew to the aft end of the mizzen boom, which was eased out. It was a bit of mickey mouse arrangement, but it worked well. When I did this, neither the main nor mizzen were hoisted, as they would seem to interfere with air flow. Only the spinnaker and staysail were up.

I would avoid running dead downwind by several degrees, as this gave both sails fairly clear air and was my preferred light wind setup.