Code Zero/Screecher Furling in Gale?

[spiv]

Originally Posted by AZUS

Good question -

My wife and I crossed the Atlantic last May in our Antares 44i.

Our practice at night was always to shorten sail/change to a more conservative sail. It was often awfully tempting, when we were streaming along swiftly with our Code 0 (my favorite sail!) flying, to just keep the ride going.

However, seven or eight hours, especially when short-handed on night watches, is a particularly long time to assume things are going to stay the same. Also, no matter the moon phase, I never felt like I understood the seas, my sails, or the wind conditions as well at night.

So, we'd always furl the Code 0 at the start of the night watch, and roll out the genoa. If the wind was gusty, or if it was particularly potent, we'd often start the night with one, or even 2 reefs in the genoa (same with mainsail). We would lose a knot or so of speed, but over the course of the night that would only put us about 8-10nm behind where we'd otherwise be (assuming all had otherwise stayed perfect overnight). We still did routine 175-180nm days, and one over 200nm.

Over the 16 days from Bermuda to Horta, this practice probably added 3/4 of a sea-day at the very most, but we never felt at risk for a moment, and we skirted a gale to the north of us, experiencing 17ft (mostly) following waves and 38kt winds for several days.

Excellent advice.
We did the same, never sailed at night with a problem sail, just not worth it.
When I go to sleep, I want to sleep, not worry and only have half a sleep....

Also, if you have the time and can afford it, get a Parasailor, never had a better downwind sail.
I had a rule: if the wind blows over 22kn True for more that 3 minutes, wake me up and she goes down and the Genoa takes over. (that would have been around 12~15 apparent).
Incidentally, I hardly used the main during both the Atlantic or Pacific crossings, I found that between the Parasailor, Genoa and code O it was just so much easier not to worry about accidental jibes, blanketing, downwind reefing etc etc.

[blueazimuth]

What a sleek and handsome boat!

A Code 0 that rolls loose on top and tight on bottom suggests that the car need to be moved forward.

Despite what the manufacturer or boat builder tells you, continuous line furlers can and do slip. Look around any boat yard - there is a reason why 9 out of 10 furlers are not continuous line.

There are also reasons why most cruisers shorten sail at night - safety and peace of mind being two. Figures of 4.5 vs 7 kts translate into about 25 miles overnight - is it worth it? Essential to a racer. But to a cruiser ???

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Agility

Ok, but how do we easily gather a 900 sq ft sail on the trampoline in a gale?

Probably not as bad as you think, if you keep a rope on the tack and bring it back to the windward side of the cockpit. wind slightly behind the beam. I've done this with sails that size in a breeze.

But this is a good reason to fly a main and to get your laundry in early. Squalls always have some warning, just not much. I really try to avoid chutes and reachers at night.

[james247]

Originally Posted by Agility

What is the best procedure to furl if a gale/squall slams us while the code zero is up?



Make sure halyard is tight for best furling.

Head about 140-150 deg downwind.

Let the sheets out as much as possible without too much flapping.

Consider buffeting the sail with the jib if needed.

(no main on my boat - just 2foils and 2jibs)

Furl with the electric winch on high speed.

Keep sheet as loose as possible balancing constant tension with flogging.

Turn into the winds 20-30 degrees to keep tension constant when nearing the last third of the furl.



If **** hits the fan, let sheets out max/completely and furl?



This general procedure doesn't work very well for us after about 15 knots apparent but it's the best procedure I've got. I typically have problems with our sail beginning to furl from the bottom up instead of evenly or top down. As a result we tend to have a lot of tension and a very tight furl at the bottom and loose above the sheets. This of course makes it prone to unfurling and we (especially my wife) would rather leave it out for a squall furled up safely with the continuous line furler secured instead of taking it down.



We have a 900 sq ft lightweight laminate, tight luff code zero/asymmetric/screecher, with an anti torque luff rope, attached to a continuous line furler, on a bowsprit and trimmed to the spinnaker blocks aft on the hulls of our Catamaran. Here's a picture: Gallery – agility @ sea

Firstly don't get caught in a squall your not racing.
Second on bigger boats with bigger loads wear sailing gloves all the time
Thirdly if you are really caught out drop it.
All the other ideas work unless the.... hit the fan. Picking it up from the water isn't easy but it's much better than shredding the sails your hands or breaking something like a mast

[Agility]

Dropping it into the water makes some sense but how to do that carefully?

Head ddw.

Let the sheets out.

Unclip the tack.

Bear off 90 def apparent.

Let the halyard out.

Sail past and winch in.

Never engage the props. Until 100% sure the lines are clear.

Winch in with sheet or let it go if too dangerous.

[barnakiel]

A Zero is not a sail that you are likely to carry in a gale. When in a gale or in very squally conditions, the sail should be long ago furled up and likely dropped too.

When caught out, I agree, you will be faced with the described challenges. But, as a rule, you have the wrong sail up.

And bearing off is not the answer either. Zero is not a downwind sail. If you get caught, before you bear off from tight reach, the sail will neatly shred itself. You must be able to contain the calamity while beating.

In flat water, you can 'park' the boat - lay abeam while furling the sail. This lowers the apparent and gives you more hands.

Otherwise, the answer is out there: you want more luff tension and stiffer anti-twist luff. Look at recent designs from the top of the brands - they have shifted to some extremely twist-resisting designs over 2015-2017.

Having furled a huge Zero on a Maxi (Zero area about 600 sq m) in a squall I can tell you this: luff tension, quality gear and modern luff rope are the answers.

Cheers,
b.

[Agility]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

A Zero is not a sail that you are likely to carry in a gale. When in a gale or in very squally conditions, the sail should be long ago furled up and likely dropped too.

Agreed. Just wanted to get a sense of how to furl if the unexpected a happens. I've crossed the pacific and had no issues. Crossing the atlantic next week and just want to think through contingency planning.

Regarding a downwind sail. I must be thinking about downwind sailing differently or have a really different code zero. I find that putting out the, let's call it a screecher, sail works great on about 60 degrees to beam or broad reach. If I also use my working/self tacking jib poled out to the upwind side I can go ddw very comfortably and the code zero stays full and is pretty much bullet proof up to about 15 kts apparent wind. 20Kts true (10 apparent) is OK but that's the time to take it down.

This picture show the double headsail while also flying the aft jib.

[cfarrar]

Sounds like our "gennaker" is similar size and cut to your "screecher." We use it from 60 apparent to a run, sometimes opposite the jib on a pole, like you.

In the few times we've sailed through run-of-the-mill tropical squalls with with the gennaker up, we just focused on downwind steering, easing the sheet until the sail twisted and luffed without flogging wildly.

We've never furled in more than 25kts. If the continuous furling line slips maybe a different style line would be helpful? One with a less slippery cover?

I can't release the fast shackle on my tack when the halyard/luff is tensioned, but even if I could lower the sail into the water, it suspect it would quickly become a sea anchor. That sounds really dicey.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Agility

Agreed. Just wanted to get a sense of how to furl if the unexpected a happens. I've crossed the pacific and had no issues. Crossing the atlantic next week and just want to think through contingency planning.

Regarding a downwind sail. I must be thinking about downwind sailing differently or have a really different code zero. I find that putting out the, let's call it a screecher, sail works great on about 60 degrees to beam or broad reach. If I also use my working/self tacking jib poled out to the upwind side I can go ddw very comfortably and the code zero stays full and is pretty much bullet proof up to about 15 kts apparent wind. 20Kts true (10 apparent) is OK but that's the time to take it down.

This picture show the double headsail while also flying the aft jib.

Attachment 159693

Atlantic? Next week? Are you perhaps in Las Palmas?

We are going to cross soon too, next week perhaps too ...

Regarding downwind - the Zero will work. Just get yourself that extra extra long pole to pole it out flat 90 degrees and you are set. The main can be reefed and trimmed in - this keeps the top air open for the Zero but also keeps the boat from rolling too much. The Zero pulls, the main stabilizes.

Regarding streaming (aka ocean drop, aka Spanish drop) the Zero - depends on what canvas yours is made off. A proper zero will not stream well. A nylon one with a dux luff rope maybe yes. But a proper Zero will be laminate or Cuben or Stormlite with semi-wire luff. These things do not stream well. Wet Cuben or laminate are horror to handle. Imagine hauling in your genoa 1 that went overboard together with a wire forestay still attached ...

Cheers,
barnakiel

[catsketcher]

Lots of times when we have these threads, people talk about shielding the kite with the main. Some cats sailors even sail with the main in tight - but you can't do that with the mast foil.

I can only think of a few ideas that you may have already considered.

Furl on the surf - It is sometimes possible to unload the boat for seconds at a time when surfing or surging. This would be a good time to try and bear away a little and get the Code 0 furled. However you only get a few seconds at a time. I use this leeward wiggle to get the boards up or down. I always try to gybe on a nice smooth surf. KE = 1/2mv^2 so if you can get the apparent down some, the loads go down heaps.

Use a bigger torque luff rope. Maybe you may have to take the Code 0 back to the loft and get a larger luff rope fitted. This may stop it furling down low first.

Unroll the genoa, blanket the Code 0 and bear away almost square. This will reduce the pressure on the Code 0 somewhat. Maybe enough to help furl it.

I have a fair bit of an issue furling my screecher but it just has spectra in its luff - no anti-torque line. I have sat up the front winding in and out to get it right, and things work best with the main up. Your boat will be an interesting one to work out.

cheers

Phil

[Agility]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Atlantic? Next week? Are you perhaps in Las Palmas?

We are going to cross soon too, next week perhaps too ...

Very close to Las Palmas, we’re in The Marina in La Palma. Wish I had known the difference when I made the reservation but lovely little marina. Thinking about Tuesday but still waiting for the window.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Agility

Very close to Las Palmas, we’re in The Marina in La Palma. Wish I had known the difference when I made the reservation but lovely little marina. Thinking about Tuesday but still waiting for the window.

Argh. What a shame! But La Palma is a great spot too.

Our departure timings will differ, you can take the Westerly option while we have to get out of the wind shadows of Grand Canaria and then Tenerife (which are HUGE - up to 30 miles) and then La Gomera and El Hierro stand in the way. So we must ease down S whether we like it or not.

For us, Saturday looks like we get a shot at it.

I hope to see you on the other side then!

Cheers,
b.

[Agility]

Not a perfect window, but we're heading out today. Been waiting 10 days and ready to go.

Safe Passage.

[barnakiel]

Bon voyage! Fair winds!

We believe our dept slot comes in about 5 or 6 days.

See you on the other side of the pond!

barnakiel

[Agility]

Fwiw, flew the code zero most every day until big winds or off shift at midnight for 5 hours and had no problems. Probably shaved 2-3 days off of 19 day passage by using it. Found the biggest help in furling in bigger winds was to have the bitter/loose end of the continuous line held by a winch handle secured in another winch so that when I used the electric winch the line had a little tension on it so that I could furl by myself with one hand for the sail sheets and one for the electric winch.