Steel or Aluminum

[44'cruisingcat]

My 44' cat took around 6000 hours. I know a few others who have taken similar timeframes. No doubt a 65 foot cat in steel or aluminium would take MUCH longer, maybe double that or more.

Seems my experience has been a lot more positive than your's Boracay. Very happy with the result, and saved plenty over buying a similar boat.

Although the current financial situation does make buying much more attractive than it was a few years back.

[scoobert]

a steel boat would take far less time then any other type except aluminum, that would be the same time.
once you cut all the parts out you just weld them together.
if worst came to worst i can go to the votech to get a few kids from welding class to do some welding.
80,000 hours? no way. not sure there is even that many in a power barge.

[Boracay]

44'cruisingcat - That is one seriously nice boat. I'm jealous.
I probably work a bit slower than most though.

My 32' ferro took 1500 hours and three years to launch (should have put in another 1500 but I wanted to sail) and the 6.5m ply took about 500 hours and a year. All of it part time work.

Boracay was up round 5000 hours when we left and I really should have put in another couple of thousand more.

Also I'm not the world's best worker.

[scoobert]

1300 man hours to assemble the hulls deck and superstructure from the kit.
that's from Bruce himself.

[scoobert]

oh, and i have to say after sales support is awesome.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by scoobert

a steel boat would take far less time then any other type except aluminum, that would be the same time.
once you cut all the parts out you just weld them together.
.

I disagree. Building from prefab flat cored fibreglass panels has many of the advantages of steel, plus a few more.

It's far easier and faster to cut.
Taping joins is faster than welding IMO.
Panels are lighter, so easier to handle. I handled a 44' x 6' sheer panel by myself.
With my boat, once I had built the outside shell, I had built the inside too. The inner skin is the inside of the outer skin. It just needs fairing and painting. With metal, you have to build an interior inside the shell - you virtually build another boat inside.

If Bruce Roberts can guarantee you'll have the shell of a 65 foot cat assembled and fully welded in 1300 hours, then go for it. But I seriously doubt it's possible.

[scoobert]

well 1300 is for steel that is pre cut. its like a big 3d puzzle with a cheat sheet.
i am not getting the kit. i will be cutting my own. so add 300-400 hours of cutting.
many of the parts are very large. as far as finishing the inside...
i have to spray insulate it, then put down plywood for flooring, and some type of wall covering. i will be doing hardwood flooring later over the plywood.
i hope to be living on it after 2000 hours of construction time, some of which i will sub out. i plan to have two people work on the major parts for 10-15 weeks 40 hours per week with me helping, once everything is cut.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

However the hull cost is only about 1/3 of the total cost of a boat and the labour for welding is a much smaller fraction again. So having a hull professionally constructed and fitting out the boat yourself. Or working with a professional aluminium welder are all viable options that are worth considering.

I've built 3 steel boats. Two for myself. I will disagree slightly with noelex on the 1/3 factor. The hull is about 10%-15% of the total cost and time.
scoobert...If your afraid of the price of Aluminum welding equipment, you aint seen nothing. The welder will account for about 1/2% of the cost of building.
Frankly...I find your whole approach fool hearty. There is no, "do it yourself and save" by building custom. You'll end up with a lumpy, heavy potato unless you're a pro with years of welding gear. Ask anyone else on the forum that has built from scratch, how long it takes. For what you're attempting...years and years.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by scoobert

1300 man hours to assemble the hulls deck and superstructure from the kit.
that's from Bruce himself.

....and you believe this guy? I built his R34. Took much longer than he said.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

I've built 3 steel boats. Two for myself. I will disagree slightly with noelex on the 1/3 factor. The hull is about 10%-15% of the total cost and time.
scoobert...If your afraid of the price of Aluminum welding equipment, you aint seen nothing. The welder will account for about 1/2% of the cost of building.
Frankly...I find your whole approach fool hearty. There is no, "do it yourself and save" by building custom. You'll end up with a lumpy, heavy potato unless you're a pro with years of welding gear. Ask anyone else on the forum that has built from scratch, how long it takes. For what you're attempting...years and years.

what are the other major costs?

according to what your saying i will be spending between 1 million and 1.5 million?
thats seems highly unlikely.
this reminds me of house building, in that as you get bigger the cost per square foot goes down.
EG a 1000 sqft home can cost $35 per.
a 4000 sq ft home can cost only $23 per.
that is self built pricing.
40' cat or 60' cat, you still only need two engines, 1 generator, 1 battery bank, 1 helm, auto pilot, radar,
you will need more cooling, sure. but thats not the major expense.
3 years is a goal, not a brick wall. i would be willing to spend as long as 5 on it.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

....and you believe this guy? I built his R34. Took much longer than he said.

if i am going too slow, i would bring in more helpers for longer.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by scoobert

what are the other major costs?

according to what your saying i will be spending between 1 million and 1.5 million?
thats seems highly unlikely.
this reminds me of house building, in that as you get bigger the cost per square foot goes down.
EG a 1000 sqft home can cost $35 per.
a 4000 sq ft home can cost only $23 per.
that is self built pricing.
40' cat or 60' cat, you still only need two engines, 1 generator, 1 battery bank, 1 helm, auto pilot, radar,
you will need more cooling, sure. but thats not the major expense.
3 years is a goal, not a brick wall. i would be willing to spend as long as 5 on it.

If you want to sail use the money and buy a used one. If you want to be a boat builder and not a sailor , knock yourself out. You know how you make a small fortune in boat building !!


Yes you need a mast two engines etc. but these are all progressively way more expensive. Look at sails and mast costs for such boats.

Many have been their before you. And most are failures. You need good equipment , good skills , and a lot of luck.
Dave

[cfarrar]

Scoobert:

You have limited building experience, limited boating experience (judging from your description of your boat), and no parenting experience. Might your plan succeed? Sure! However, the most likely outcome is not that you will be "defeated" by the requirements of time and money - though this is certainly possible - but rather that you will change your plans as you gain experience building, cruising, and parenting.

Buy a used trawler, live aboard for a while, and spend time with your kids. You'll find out if you really need that 65 ft steel catamaran. If so, then go for it. If not, you will have saved yourself a whole lot of time, money, and heartache.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

If you want to sail use the money and buy a used one. If you want to be a boat builder and not a sailor , knock yourself out. You know how you make a small fortune in boat building !!


Yes you need a mast two engines etc. but these are all progressively way more expensive. Look at sails and mast costs for such boats.

Many have been their before you. And most are failures. You need good equipment , good skills , and a lot of luck.
Dave

its not a sail boat.
i am not trying to say i can make money doing this. after the basics are done, we will move aboard and have tons of time to do the finish work.
all i need to move on is a dry, working, boat.

the drive system will be hybrid, i am expecting it to cost a lot, but i will be fabbing it myself. also the drive system can be finished once in the water.

i know there are a ton of failures. BR makes money because he sells plans. i am betting on out of 1000 plans he sells, 200 get started, 150 finished. thats only a guess.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by cfarrar

Scoobert:

You have limited building experience, limited boating experience (judging from your description of your boat), and no parenting experience. Might your plan succeed? Sure! However, the most likely outcome is not that you will be "defeated" by the requirements of time and money - though this is certainly possible - but rather that you will change your plans as you gain experience building, cruising, and parenting.

Buy a used trawler, live aboard for a while, and spend time with your kids. You'll find out if you really need that 65 ft steel catamaran. If so, then go for it. If not, you will have saved yourself a whole lot of time, money, and heartache.

the trawler would be ok, if it didnt require so much power to push thru the water. but when diesel is $10 a gallon i will need an option B.